help please with sketch and toon


#1

i cant get this sketch and toon shader
when i use it i always use the premade shaders

what whould like to do is make a render that looks like a oil painting
not just the strokes but the whole thing

please help :banghead:


#2

how about trying to use some of the S&T shaders…like art and the like within your materials with noise etc…have you tried messing with them.
:shrug:


#3

Yup, the Art-Shader should do exactly what you want, I guess—
Olli


#4

yeah ive tried it,cant get good results with it.Im going to try and mess with the
make a shader file that comes with sketch ill post what i got later

thanks for the help guys

0_o


#5

Yeah, that’s pretty much my problem with S&T, I can’t seem to get the results I’m after.

It’s great for artsy, sketchy and weird toony effects, but I just don’t seem to be able to create the particular look I’m after. I’m sure it’s my skull being too thick but pretty much all of maxons other modules are fool-proof. S&T, I found, is not… :sad:

PS: Another thread in wich I stated my rather negative opinion about S&T’s design seemed to have got out of hand as I have never been able to find it since. So, if anybody feels an urgent need to flame me for my unholy opinion, please send me a pm… :slight_smile:


#6

have you seen an example of sketch and toon creating the look you want?

maybe you are assuming it can do something it can’t…

if you read the manuals and do the tutorials, it is actually very straightforward - and like most high-end technologies, requires patience and lots of experimentation

if you post an example ofthe look you are going for - maybe we can give you some pointers - based on your description I would guess you want to read up on Sketch and Toon’s “Art Shader”


#7

Hmm, Kirl,
I have used S&T quite some in the last months and my opinion is exactly inverse:
I could get practically exactly what i wanted to achieve, even relatively fast (I am not after Artsy-fartsy, but comic-look(not flat shades, but with light and shade), and sometimes a loose and sketchy type. .
Did a huuuge City Helicopter animated scene in a sort of Vectorgraphicslook , too, S&T did a hell of a job there.
(Its nice that all parameters on the tags are animatable, so it easy to make an expresso that fades out detail for objects in the background–very nice)

I am very fond of the product.

What kind of look are you after? do you have an example?
Maybe I could have a look?
Sometimes you have to look at the style you are after and try to break it into pieces.
I use the Style-tags a lot, manipulating selections and Shading.
Use Shaders not belonging to S&T, too, works well together.

Keep in mind that for a nice toon- look you often have to model differntly:

Pushing Primitives into each other, modelling without beveled borders is considered not nice in hi-detail photorealism, but can look superior in S&T.

Olli


#8

im trying to get a look like this
oil painting

thanks for the feed back


#9

Thats would be fotorealisticly lit scene, a posteffect applying the strokes to the whole picture.
Does not look like a job for S&T, but for a posteffect or a filter.
Have you tried running a normal render through painter or photoshop filters?
Olli


#10

a better idea:
Render out a fotorealistic scene, light like the classic painter style.
Run a photoshop or Bodypaint filter that simulates strokes over the image,
then map the rendered image to a plane , put a canvas& crackle structure in Bump channel & light the picture like hung in amuseum, then render again—should be it.
Did that for an advertisement once and it looks very convincing.

OLli


#11

I have to agree with Olli–this isn’t a job for an NPR renderer. I don’t think there’s any on the market would produce the oil painting look as well (or nearly as quickly) as doing it in post. You might be able to do it with the art shader but you’d have to spend a lot of time experimenting.


#12

or just paint it :smiley:

edit: sorry was just being cheeky…ignore me :smiley:


#13

I think it can be done with some creative use of the artshader and some layers and such, but honestly the time it’d take to get a result even close, would be huge compared to simplyapplying a post effect as the others suggested. you could use the paper feature of sketch and toon to at least get a photorealistic render ot look likes its on paper.

Believe it or not, you’d be better off trying to achive such a result using Storm tracer then you woudl sketch and toon, this seems to be right up with infrogrfica’s npr render thing that has a spritebased paint effect.


#14

I’m not trying to be facetious…but the product is called Sketch & Toon. From the name I wouldn’t think that it was geared for painterly renderings. I could be wrong, which is why I bring it up.


#15

I seem to remember a artist doing a project using a NPR for MAx and got quite a good oilpainting type look. I forget his name now, but I do remember he stopped the project cause his Hard Drive crashed with all the data on it. Anyway my point, he spent quite a long time on trying to get that look. I remember the tests looked quite good cause the brush strokes stayed fixed to the part of the object they were representing. I believe, naively maybe, S&T can do the same thing if we think about it, and break the processes down. It might involve a lot of work. I think the art shader is a good start, but will require multiple layers and passes. If you post your progress we might be able to help suggest possible strategies.


#16

thanks guys for the help

But i have to agree with Leebert
shouldnt s&t be able to do something like this
I could just run it threw painter but the problem is i might have to animate it
and im not going to do each frame.

thanks again


#17

woah…ok now thats a toughie…you really were talking oil painting weren’t you.

ok be prepared to spend alot of time…and some post work.
olli made a good point about modelling for it
break it down to its parts is my advice.
take each material and break them down into parts…eg the velvet, the peach stone, the orange…
think about lightings effects on those shaders…and post effects involved.
i gotta go with the guys saying it would be easier in post stuff…but your animation part would a problem…but if you can batch process the painterly settings/setup then its should be smoother.
i would say its probably possible…but its gonna be painful for sure…BUT i would love to see it done and think its a great challenge to take on. its almost like taking a “normal render” and then using that rather than the npr route…obviously some of the S&T settings would be very useful in combination with normal materials settings though.
:shrug:


#18

Leebert was saying the opposite. For animation you could do the effects in AE or the like.


#19

well everything has its limits and abiilities. I dare you to find any line renderer (which is what sketch and toon is, a line renderer) that can do this, there are none. as it is Sketch and toon can do more in terms of paintely effcts then any other but there are limits.

You want a painterly effect, i can get you one, but how much time do you have to wait for a render? Heres my suggestiong if you want cinema to paint each invidual stroke, it can easily be done. Use many layers of contour lines, using the colour and opacity affected by luminance, this way the strokes will react to your light sources too. It can be done, but not in a way that would be at all smart in terms of production times.

We have radiosity renderers that cna do amazing photo realistic stuff and yet for animations we usually still go with smart light setups rather then radiosity, and we often use specularity rather then well used reflections, why? because they are faster and produce good results, but in reality they are the less accurate way to do things.

Also have you tried the hatch shader instead of just the art shader? here are two great examples of what kind of painterly effects can be achieved


#20

I was just trying to say that I personally, going by its namesake, would not expect S&T to do painterly effects.