HCR MINI-Challenge #23: Ansel Adams Tribute

#8

Good question about Vue and Terragen. I was thinking a lot of this challenge could be accomplished easier with those tools…

#9

Interesting question as regards using vue/terragen. On the one hand the subject matter is made for those softwares, on the other, would using them really count as “hardcore modeling”?

Not to diminish the skills of those who use those softwares in the slightest. I just wonder if one would really call them “modeling” applications or some other discipline.

#10

Now the problem is the deadline is long past. Who won? Maybe you can hold another one due on Jan 15th, 2010? :slight_smile:

#11

Way to bring up a dead thread! :wink: j/k

#12

jar jar guys.

Fixed the date.

I would prefer if the modeling was done without the use of programs like vue/terragen.

#13

So does this mean the person who does use one of these programs have points taken away during judging? For Example:

Artist A used Vue or Terragen, and it looks really good. But Artist B used 3d Max and it looks good, but not as good as A. Does B win?

( I personally don’t use Vue or Terragen, but if someone else uses it here I’d probably lose since Im using Max)

#14

Well , all of us vote for teh artist that wins, not just Roberto and you should list your program you used anyway, or it should be apparent by the WIP thread.

#15

Thats true, but this doesn’t answer my question.

#16

I understand where Roberto and BertieRooster are at, but it is interesting to note that this particular challenge topic would have lent itself very well to using several of the world/matte painting apps out there. And Vue and Terragen arent the only ones…

Several high end major studios use both of these applications for creating matte paintings. Terragen/Engen was used in time machine, Stealth, and I believe most recently in GIJoe. Vue was used to some extent in the latest Caribbean installment. These are both legitmate tools used by the professional industry for a specific need.

Its understandable that when someone says “model” we have a tendency to think that the only way is through box modeling and sculpting. And Im sure it can be done well, dont get me wrong. But to be fair, making very realistic terrains and environments procedurally is very challenging. You need to understand math and functions in order to achieve the realism as seen in the high grade terragen renders. And sometimes doing things procedurally just simply makes sense for the project. An experienced user of any of these apps will quickly recognize a one-button-click terrain / atmosphere…

So my point here really is, that these tools ARE used professionally in the industry, and even if its not appropriate for this particular challenge, I could see it being a good challenge in and of itself…

:slight_smile:

#17

Interesting Mini challenges ! i like the whole idea .
about Vue/Terragen issuse , i believe if we use them, we will get more quality, and this is very important .
so i am asking to reconsider of not using those tools…

#18

don’t these programs negate the idea of “hardcore modeling” we have a month, that should be plenty of time to model everything by hand. i still don’t understand how using these programs would be different than using poser or one of those that makes different body shapes based on settings and using that for a human in a HMC.

“You may NOT use a pre exiting models. All models must be done from scratch.”" doesn’t this say it all?

more quality what? renders? is that the goal of this or are the models?

i realize that the procedural nature of these programs would make it easier, but is it supposed to be easy? and i can understand that they are used in pipelines but once again what is the end goal of these challenges, not animation or illustrations, but models right?

please note i’m not trying to be difficult, i’m trying to add to the discussion because i’m unclear about all of this as well and these are just my thoughts.

#19

spaceboy412:

I have posed this question to Roberto in the other thread asking about how to qualify for voteing with a nature landscape.
And the answer is: judging will be made on the wip of creating the models, (mountains, rocks objects, etc.) the landscape trees and atmosphere are not part of the judging basically.
Just the actual modeled meshes.
If you look at the referance images in my wip thread you;ll see that the majority of the scene is mountains and large hard-cut rocks and close up objects.
All of this will be modeled by hand in zbrush and/or maya.
Which will be displayed in the wip thread.

So while i see what your talking about, at the same time understand that the rules are being followed and us, the artists, are the judges so judge artists on what you think is good and fair and leave others to do the same.

This is my first HCM challenge and its one that i think i would be good at.
I may not win as i am up against true modeling masters but i am going to have fun anyway and do my best.
That is all that is asked from anyone here.

Yes vue/terragon would make all of it very easy and defeat the purpose but that is not the case here. I plan on being judged on the models that i will model not the “fringe” in the scene. :smiley:

#20

i don’t see where robert says trees are exempt, perhaps i’m missing that?
i still don’t understand why as i said in the other thread, you don’t model a few trees and plants and then populate using those. is there some reason you can’t do that?

i find it interesting you call these things fringe, they are just as important as every mountain peak and stone, they are the details.

my thinking, and i may be wrong on this, is that if it can be modeled, it should be, isn’t that what makes it “challenging”?

i’ve only written this stuff because i’m unclear as to what the rules are, and what we should judge by.

i hope everyone has fun doing it as well.

#21

i rarely chime in on these things… i agree with Jason. This just seems absurd… you use what will give you the best result in the least amount of time. Whether its max, vue or terragen, frankly if you were to do a environment like this in production it would be simple. i.e camera projections low res geo.

#22

byvfx, i’m sorry if anything i wrote is absurd, i’m new to these challenges and i’m still unsure as to what the endgoal is to be. i agree with you 100% about doing those things for production, i just didn’t know if that is the approach we are supposed to take with this, which is why i’m asking these questions. apparently i’m going about it the wrong way and perhaps should just stop my participation until these things are more clearly defined.

#23

Spaceboy, u didn’t write anything absurb I was saying the idea of restricting yourself to say one app. Nothing against u or anyone here. I was just sharing my opinon. I do understand this isn’t production, so if the rules were to use just one app then so be it :). In anycase I can’t to see what u guys do!

#24

Hey Brandon! good to see you here! :slight_smile:

#25

True you can have a poly plane with an image mapped to it and it could look really good but in the judging that will not be worth very much compared to an entry where someone modeled the entire mountain. Having used Terragen for years the process isn’t far different from ZBrush in that you are drawing on the model to sculpt it vs. drawing on a procedural map or importing one. I don’t think you are going to get as good a result in Terragen vs. ZBrush. Oh sure you’ll have great atmospheric lighting, clouds and a great procedural ground texture etc. etc. but none of those things have to do with the voting. Only the model.

#26

where is your faith
lets do this

#27

that would mean a model of any scene of time frame right.

i found photos of builings he took in his time.i researched his achieves and found some interesting building loads of deatiled that captured my interest.

3ds max is by trunk card in this field