Good university In UK / Need Info!

#29

Don’t scuttle into your hole Bilbo. Because plumber is as good as an architect if you have determination, bit of luck and connections and a much better trade in state of emergency (like the nurse, electrician or a fireman - backbone of society, not the VFX artist in any case).

“I’m sorry I cannot stem the bleeding because I was only taught VFX.”

“I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die!” scream

“I deduct you’re going to die my dear but I cannot stand the sight of blood, I apologize”.

#30

Why the discouragement, CGmaciej? He wants to be a VFX artist, so let him do that. Just because, from what it seems, you personally haven’t managed to be successful as an artist, that doesn’t mean you should go around discouraging others from doing so.

I’ve been making a very good living in VFX for more than 12 years now. Sure, the industry can be rather unstable but it’s never really been a serious problem for me. On the contrary I enjoy a high standard of living and I have a job I enjoy. If everyone sought to become, as you put it, a “backbone of society”, we would have no art, no entertainment, no philosophy, etc. And what with all these austerity cuts to public services these days, I daresay an artist in a private company has better job prospects right now than firemen and nurses.

#31

I do, however, wholeheartedly agree with this. The overwhelming majority of CG-related courses on offer around the world are a complete waste of time, courses taught by recent graduates with little to no industry experience being run in order to cash in on the popularity of CG. If the person teaching you is lacking actual industry experience, don’t waste your money, as they’re unlikely to be able to properly prepare you for employment in the field.

#32

Thanks for supporting me. When a person can’t achieve success they start hating on others. In this case trying to discourage me, but he couldn’t do it…

Of course there is a need to have every job in society. I do not want to be in my 80’s and think that I could have done something better, that I could have chosen to be someone else, someone that would create, not fix. If I’m telling you that I want to be a vfx artist, why are you trying to negate it? It’s not of your business who I will be and what will I accomplish in my life. If you haven’t been successful in yours and you are now a plumber or something, there is nothing wrong with it. But don’t try to say I will have the same life.

And about these

“I’m sorry I cannot stem the bleeding because I was only taught VFX.” “I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die!” scream “I deduct you’re going to die my dear but I cannot stand the sight of blood, I apologize”.
I just laughed at your ignorance. I opened 5 different organs until now, and will open them again next year. I know Biology better than you could imagine. You’re terribly wrong If you think I fear blood.

So fix those plumbs, while I, create art. :wink:

#33

Yes, do not worry, I’m sticking with websites that have industry guys with a lot of experience, not just a random 19 year old trying to do a tut for cash :slight_smile:

#34

I wasn’t implying at you because I don’t know you - I was just saying. I wish I was a qualified plumber - like Harry there. These are your assumptions. I’ve done much worse jobs in my life.

Anyway you’re taking my comments the wrong way because you’re young and you haven’t studied in England. I’m just telling you that VFX should be your hobby / passion not the thing to orbit your life around professionally (until you find actual employment in VFX).

CG is not an art form - it’s more of a job description. Salvador Dali was an artist from a prominent family (he had no choice and it would take hell of an idiot to not to be recognized) - just like with many “artists”.

Art is an effort - Paul Rand. All the best.

#35

I realize that I do not have any experience with jobs. But, there are so many companies looking for vfx artist. I mean… you don’t really have to be a 3d guy! You can be a matte painter, a roto artist, 3d modeler, etc… And even If you don’t want to work with these, publicity is worth a lot a money, working in a publicity company, being a graphic designer, hell you can work on the vfx of a local television show… man… you can get your name out there and work with other people. And on the side having your own projects!! So when you can make money out of your own stuff, you will be on the top of your world. And that’s why I didn’t quite understand those comments of yours. But yeah.

Look, You can disagree with me and say that cg is not an art. Meh, maybe it’s not. Maybe it is. Cinema is an art, painting is an art, digital painting in the cinema becomes an art because it gives you the feeling the vfx artist wanted to give you.

It was nice meeting you. Don’t worry with my life, we don’t even know each other, you gave me some advice, and I appreciate that. But nothing more.

#36

I was reading through this and thought I’d give a bit of info on the school that I go to in Denmark - it’s not in the UK I know, but it teaches exclusively in English, and the tuition fee is much, much cheaper than in the UK because Denmark enjoys free education. All you pay is the materials fee - about €295 a month. I myself am from the UK but came over here after hearing about the school :slight_smile: so I understand the bonus that being in the EU gives you. The school is quite small but has a good reputation because it’s so focused and has a fair number of 3D and animation companies working out of the school itself.

It’s called the Animation Workshop (http://www.animwork.dk/en/) and it runs two Bachelor degree courses - one in Animation and one in Computer Graphic Arts which teaches both 2D and 3D but mainly focuses on 3D. In CG you spend the first year learning Maya, Photoshop, After Effects and Mudbox with a generalist approach to 3D, in addition to matte painting, design, storyboarding and other 2D related skills. In 2nd year you build on what you know and progress from there with more software (Nuke etc.). Finally, in 3rd year you spend the entire year making a film with a group of students both from your own course and the animation course. You can choose to do a game instead if you wish, but the school is quite film focused. All of our teachers currently work in the industry and don’t teach as a full time job, which can be bad but usually works out well because the school has been around for a while and they’ve worked out who’s good - we have a lot of teachers come over from the studios in London and some from even further afield - this year for instance we had a rigging teacher from Dreamworks for a couple of weeks.

As far as entry requirements go, as long as you have completed a high school education the entry is completely portfolio based. You can find more about the portfolio requirements on the website, but if you get through the initial portfolio round, you then go on to do an interview and timed test, after which point they will let you know if you’ve been accepted. There is one problem with this school if you are really 3D/VFX based - they really think that good 3D is backed up with good drawing skills, and the portfolio requirements reflect this. They run a semester long drawing course for those who want it, but it costs a bunch so you’re better off just starting now and practicing if you want to come to the school.

It’s a great school anyway, some amazing teachers - you aren’t in a big city at all but you become a better artist because it gives you the time to concentrate on your work. It’s a great atmosphere and I’d really recommend it if you want to check the school out on the website.

#37

Hey! Thank you! Look, uhm, that is a good option. I would prefer UK though but it looks really good.

About the drawing part, do not worry, almost every university does a drawing exam, so I will practice with my mom, she teaches art professionally. I can drawn, but not at a really high level, so I will try to get that skill at it’s best before entering any university!

But yeah, Denmark. My goal was to study in England and then live there and work there. I’m tired of Portugal. And you realize when you go to a university in a place they will give you like a path to get a job in that area/country. And living in Denmark, it would be like living in Portugal, I mean I guess it would, because they are really small countries, but I only guess, I don’t know :). But yeah, If I was already living in Denmark, I would go there with no further thinking, It looks amazing!

It’s a really hard choice, but I will consider your input, thank you again!

If anyone has any further info of any other Uni, please comment!

#38

Hello!

I couldn’t avoid to follow the thread between Maciej, Leigh and you without having a word about it. I am currently studying a 3D masters in London, and you might not want to hear this but what Maciej is telling you is true. I am not suggesting go plumbing if that’s not what you want to do for a living (I guess Maciej didn’t suggest that either but was easy to misread) but, by all means, follow the advise Leigh gave regarding researching all the staff and don’t throw your money to the trash bin, or at least be mentally prepared to attend a course with people who will only pop up once or twice per week with a “to do” list, a deadline, seriously dated video tutorials, and the difference between an A+ and a B- is whether you self-trained in youtube or paid some digitalTutors membership on the side. If you are not careful enough, you will end up paying 11k only for a piece of paper that nobody cares about besides your parents (because back on the day it mattered, but nowadays, and specially in this industry, your portfolio is what matters) and friends (because their parents told them so). Also, if you are planning to get a job in England afterwards, bare in mind they are not giving working visas anymore unless the company sponsors you directly, and for that, UKBA requires for the company to demonstrate nobody else in the UK can do the task… so you have to be very, very good on what you do… and anywhere in the world, for that matter.

#39

No problem, I know it’s hard looking for good schools, a lot of people on here have been through it. Thanks for listening to the advice, as well.

The only thing I would say in response to the studying being a path to working in the UK thing - be careful with this. I’m sure there are a lot of great unis worth going to in the UK, but it might be worth considering other places that have just as good connections and aren’t going to cost £27,000 for your studies in tuition fees alone. It’s hard enough to earn money in this kind of work. Also remember that a lot of work in Europe is based out of London and France, especially in animation - you might want to explore some other countries because there’s a good chance you’ll end up in one of those two anyway :slight_smile:

I don’t see being in Denmark as being ‘away from it all’ in the UK. We have really good contacts over here with the studios in London, like Cinesite, Framestore and elsewhere, like Aardman, because people who are currently working there come to teach in Denmark during the weeks they have off, which is how our school works. Really look into things like that when you’re doing your research - you can go to a great university and not get anywhere because, even though it’s in the right country, it’s quite academically focused and therefore removed from the industry. That’s a massive barrier to getting a job - one of the most important things you can do is make contacts within the industry. A lot of the time this is what will get you jobs in the future, because then you’ll be the guy people think of when they think ‘hey, I need a modeller…,’ and who wouldn’t rather give jobs to friends - people they know they get along with, rather than complete strangers. Not saying that skill isn’t a massive factor - it definitely is, but this is a small industry and knowing people is a huge part of that.

But good luck searching! I understand wanting to move out of a small country, and the prospect of big cities like London is exciting. It’s great that you’re looking into it now and really know what you want to do - I wish I was so sure when I was your age. Good luck anyway :slight_smile: I hope you find what you’re looking for.

#40

Yeah! Thanks! But the thing is, I will have to pay for my own uni(Of course my parents will pay the expenses like food and school materials), and I will do this with a Portuguese student loan that gives the opportunity to go study in London and you will pay your loan when you’re working. I think if you earn 4k € a month you need to pay them 250€, something like that, With absolutely no rate (like paying 10% more or something) until you complete the whole schools tuition. And If you don’t receive more than 1.5k€ a month, you will not pay them a cent… It’s plus if you end up working on a minimum wage or something, but I hope it will never happen to us!
I have a lot of friends that are studying in England this way and enjoying it a lot.

And yeah, after all I still have 3 years to decide, I will look up to other student loans and other unis around EU and see what I can get. I’m just more on the uk side because of that loan… It has given a lot of chances to many people!

Thanks! And hope you have a good vfx life :smiley:

#41

Hi Daniel,

I’ve studied at Teesside for one year and I can tell you that the course is pretty good for someone who has never done anything in 3D. Most of all, the facilities are awesome -maybe the best I’ve seen anywhere. The university also holds the Animex festival, a great opportunity to meet professionals coming from some of the best studios all over the world.

I’ve been at Hertfordshire as well during an open-day and their local festival. The campus seems very nice as well as courses and tutors. A real strength is the proximity to London and all the consequent benefits.

Last but not least, I’d have a serious look at online resources such as Digital Tutors, CGWorkshop and Escape Studios [to mention but a few], you could find anything you need just there without the need of further explanations.

Anyway, I’d say that it is not the course that makes the real difference, but yourself. Lots of people that go at uni don’t know what they’re going to do or are not passionate enough in my opinion. Make your homework and be 101% sure of what you want to be, it can save you lots of time! Good luck.

#42

Thank you!

#43

If you’re still considering Bournemouth, I might have some insight. I just finished first year on the Computer Visualisation and Animation course. The lecturers are mostly very qualified, talented people, many of them with ongoing work in the industry on the side. One gains a lot from other students, especially the exceptional ones who go out of their way to learn stuff not on the course.

Regarding software packages, we mostly use Maya here. All the computers are on Linux, so we have to make do with GIMP instead of PS. Nuke, Mudbox and Houdini are also used, particularly after the first year. We learn Python (for Maya) and C++, which is a real boon when it comes to getting employed, and speeding up or improving the workflow. Maths and Life Drawing are taught well, and feel very relevant to the majority of 3D career paths. The library also has books and DVDs on many aspects of 3D if you want to study in your spare time, some more useful than others. It feels to me like many people prefer to do the minimum possible to scrape passing the course, which is not an ideal way to go about things in my view. The majority on this forum are dozens of times more dedicated to their art than most students I know.

I haven’t a clue about the Portuguese grading system, but the entry requirements to the course are really not that high. I would learn some 3D basics beforehand, as well as practising drawing/ painting and putting together a small but decent physical art (i.e. on paper) portfolio. You can’t expect to be taught every detail of a software package by the lecturers - I found my few years experience in 3Ds Max very useful when it came to learning Maya, while newcomers to 3D packages were often confused, with their grades suffering as a result of the learning curve.

Overall, if I was basing the value for money on the hours in Lectures and tutorials (and this goes for any university probably), I would say it is faster and cheaper to teach yourself. Degrees are not that valuable nowadays, so what does that leave us with? The experience of working with other people, teaching them and getting contacts with the industry are I would say the most valuable parts of the university experience (from a career point of view). It is an enjoyable experience of course. If you can get those three benefits elsewhere, like a job, I would probably recommend forgoing the degree.

Good luck with your decision, and in your future career!

#44

Thank you! Next summer I will visit UK and every University, I hope I can get a feeling of each one and ask more detailed questions there.

Thanks for the clarification of the software package. But only one question, Why in the world are they teaching c++? I mean they could teach Max script or AE/Nuke Expressions… Is c++ taught in that specific degree or is there another degree more of vfx? Thanks!

#45

I think C++ is taught (in Computer Visualisation and Animation - there is a similar course, Computer Animation Arts without much of the programming/ maths, and focussing more on cinematography, compositing and actual animation) so that we can develop tools to make art, or programs/ games. I guess the object-oriented programming principles are useful when scripting as well.

One part of the course is more baffling for a VFX artist, that of the fundamentals of computer architecture - being able to build a computer out of boolean logic gates, timers etc, up to higher level structures like registers, memory and graphics chipsets. But I have found both elements useful when, for example using Cg to develop shaders for a real-time engine. I guess the CVA course is more geared towards technical artists/ TDs. Students’ programming projects often include writing particle systems, fluid dynamics systems, that kind of thing. You can often choose which directions you want to go in at Bournemouth, which can only be a good thing!

#46

Thanks! That was really helpful! I’m not so much of a scripting guy, but more of a visual… so yeah… I would go with “Computer Animation Arts” as you say it’s less programming/math. Thanks again for explaining! I really do not see myself in a programming class right now… and in c++, that’s one hard language x) I prefer keeping with software made already and try to create a good product out of it. But I do take my hat off to those guys who make the software and plugins.

#47

Yeah the Bournemouth computer visualization and animation course is probably by far the best CG course in the UK, the computer science aspect is there but it makes you more employable which is part of why its so respected.

I disagree with it being easy to get into though, when I applied its was 40 applicants for each place and they ask for A,A,B in good subjects.

You don’t need a visa or anything like that for working in the UK if your from the EU

The cost of living in London is extremely high so its not a great place to be a student, a room would be like £500 a month minimum.

I would judge the standard of a university by its teachers and the former students work, no student work on their site = alarm bell.

A lot of them name drop and talk about great facilities I would not listen to that personally, let the work do the talking, if the student work from the previous years is looking lame, can be sure the course is not up to scratch. Be careful because there are a LOT of bad 3D courses in the UK and very few good ones. Can count them on one hand, education here is quite a big business so you get a lot of sham courses.

There is less of that money grab mentality in mainland Europe, many have a lot of integrity and really care about the students performance as opposed to the numbers.

#48

Awesome! Bournemouth looks great! How is the place? And what is it like to live there? Criminality? How are the people?