Gnomon School of Visual Effects Unveils Gnomon Studios

[dunkelzahn]

Tricky one there. One one hand it IS nice to work on a triple A production while graduating. On the other hand some other SOB might actually receive a salary for the work you are doing for free.

Considering you pay a lot of cash for the Gnomon studies it IS rather cheeky. On the other hand, as long as they are forcing no one to participate in their short films you should be free to participate in other projects. If these projects are part of the curriculum and have to be absolved, then that is not a good practice

Any more information here? Maybe a comment from Mr. Alvarez himself? Might help to clear some things up, before the flamers capture this thread.

[leigh]

I am merging this new thread with the original.

[Kanga]

I haven’t read the articles but you would have to assume the quality of the work done would be to a professional standard, which is impossible. It is very difficult to get a good internship and they are worth gold. Your stuff gets used then you have a bang entry in your cv, that counts. I think just about every company asks for experience these days.

Someone saying they think their work is worth a lot is, well, something I have heard often and have never seen.

If you are one of those student on a gnomon internship, and are reading this thread, network your bee-hind off, I implore you!

Cheers

[leigh]

Kinda reminds me of the college athlete debate. College football/basketball brings in tens of MILLIONS of dollars for the school and coach staff. Yet the student athletes, who are largely responsible for all that income, are not paid a single penny.

I may be wrong about this so please correct me if that’s the case, but aren’t those hotshot sports star students usually on fully paid scholarships? In which case, they’re getting an education in exchange for their participation in sport.

Personally, if I was a student at Gnomon, I wouldn’t take part in this. I find the idea of paying exorbitant fees to go to a school and then working on a commercial project rather disturbing myself. I have no issue with short term internships for students, but I wouldn’t consider this an internship at all because interns don’t pay the studio to get that experience.

[circusboy]

I haven’t read the articles but you would have to assume the quality of the work done would be to a professional standard, which is impossible. It is very difficult to get a good internship and they are worth gold. Your stuff gets used then you have a bang entry in your cv, that counts. I think just about every company asks for experience these days.

Someone saying they think their work is worth a lot is, well, something I have heard often and have never seen.

If you are one of those student on a gnomon internship, and are reading this thread, network your bee-hind off, I implore you!

Cheers

Not impossible-but maybe has to filter out only the ‘very best’ in class?! I mean just look at this schools work?!
http://www.gobelins.fr/galerie/animation/
World class-and done by students. In this case the stories are developed by the students as well. But I am curious how they get the quality and consistancy of work so strong (from again students).

Back on topic. Hmm-overall this is a tough one-because yes students might be paying to work on a production (that potentialy will profit). But then again they might be ‘buying’ the opportunity to get both top quality demo reel content and pipeline experience.
Both of which get jobs. And very few schools can offer it. Probably gives you a serious advantage over most other CG grads out there. Almost like ‘graduating’ with 1-2 years production experience under your belt…

[th3ta]

I may be wrong about this so please correct me if that’s the case, but aren’t those hotshot sports star students usually on fully paid scholarships? In which case, they’re getting an education in exchange for their participation in sport.

It’s true that they are most likely on a fully paid sports scholarship, but I think the main point of the debate is that the value of that scholarship pales in comparison to all the millions that they bring in. Head football coaches for the big schools can make over a million a year. Granted, that’s with like a 300k base salary, plus TV/radio deals which brings the total up a lot. I’m not sure if the students can make the same TV/radio deals or not and get paid for that. But either way, the value of the star athlete’s 4 year scholarship isn’t equal to the revenue they bring in.

[leigh]

Yeah th3ta, but isn’t that a fact of life in the professional arena too? I mean, unless you’re a top corporate dog, you’re always going to be working for someone who is making loads of money off you.

[system]

They are being taken advantage of, but you also get what you pay for. Student work is always going to be of a lower quality.

Ask your same friend in ten years if he thinks the work he is doing now is worth “alot of money”. If he has wised up and improved his skill by then he will certainly see it was not.
Did these students wake up one day, mid way through this course and realize where they were and what they were doing wasn’t getting them paid? I am positive they knew this info going in.

[th3ta]

Yeah th3ta, but isn’t that a fact of life in the professional arena too? I mean, unless you’re a top corporate dog, you’re always going to be working for someone who is making loads of money off you.

Yeah, I guess life’s unfair.

[KrzysztofFus]

So let me get this straight.

Gnomon School just opened a studio where graduating students from the Gnomon School pay money to work on feature films for free? That makes me cringe.

Pretty soon studios like MPC and Sony Imageworks are gonna be saying “Hey, either take the pay cut or I’ll just bring in some students that will pay ME to do the work.”

[polyphile]

there’s a word for this and it starts with ex and ends with ploitation.

then again, i Guess the world is always gonna be full of gullible kids eager to be taken advantage of. lets just hope studios dont start following suit, hey?

[th3ta]

Pretty soon studios like MPC and Sony Imageworks are gonna be saying “Hey, either take the pay cut or I’ll just bring in some students that will pay ME to do the work.”

I think you’re forgetting that the work a student does (in terms of quality, speed, ability to make exact, specific changes) is not equal to the work a professional from MPC or Imageworks does.

[KrzysztofFus]

I think you’re forgetting that the work a student does (in terms of quality, speed, ability to make exact, specific changes) is not equal to the work a professional from MPC or Imageworks does.

Debatable. I personally know people who left school and became art directors, lead technical directors and other senior jobs right out of school. Of course MOST students leaving school cant match up to someone working in the industry for years but a special few can.

I’m just afraid that Gnomon Studio will set a standard for the VFX industry. I’ve seen companies play the free intern game before. Mid level and senior artists train the interns, they get fired. Interns do their jobs for free under the promise of paid work. Supervised under one Art Director.

[imashination]

The students are paying the studio for the privilege of working on their for-profit projects? This is a level of evil genius beyond my understanding. All hail our new money making overlords!

Who wants to come mow my lawn? you can pay me in monthly instalments if you like.

[Maxim_311]

I think you’re forgetting that the work a student does (in terms of quality, speed, ability to make exact, specific changes) is not equal to the work a professional from MPC or Imageworks does.

You guys who keep saying this are forgetting one very important thing…when it comes to quality people are willing to overlook a lot when the price tag is free!

Ask a producer if they’ll take a good looking fx shot for X amount of dollars or a passable fx shot for free Or a hell of a lot cheaper and then see how long you’ll keep your job.

[th3ta]

Debatable. I personally know people who left school and became art directors, lead technical directors and other senior jobs right out of school. Of course MOST students leaving school cant match up to someone working in the industry for years but a special few can.

I’m just afraid that Gnomon Studio will set a standard for the VFX industry. I’ve seen companies play the free intern game before. Mid level and senior artists train the interns, they get fired. Interns do their jobs for free under the promise of paid work. Supervised under one Art Director.

Yeah there’s always exceptions to the rule. I’ve come across a few myself.

Another point I’d like to make is that while everyone likes to blame these studios and companies who are “taking advantage”, you have to remember it’s the students who are willing to do this work. If it was that big of an issue for them, and everyone resisted it, then you wouldn’t see stuff like this happening.

[system]

If there weren’t a Gnomon School, there weren’t any Gnomon students and no offer for such an internal internship. If Gnomon makes a lot of money with the students work, they should invest in the school. Otherwise it would be really criminal if Gnomon Director A. Alvarez or the teachers at Gnomon make a little extra money for themself through student’s work.

[KrzysztofFus]

You guys who keep saying this are forgetting one very important thing…when it comes to quality people are willing to overlook a lot when the price tag is free!

Ask a producer if they’ll take a good looking fx shot for X amount of dollars or passable fx shot for free Or a hell of a lot cheaper and then see how long you’ll keep your job.

This is exactly what Im talking about.

[system]

There are quite a few studios and television broadcaster which wouldn’t exist anymore without interns. I have heard storys about “companys” which had more interns in house as professional workers. It is a sensible topic!

there’s a word for this and it starts with ex and ends with ploitation.

[KrzysztofFus]

Yeah there’s always exceptions to the rule. I’ve come across a few myself.

Another point I'd like to make is that while everyone likes to blame these studios and companies who are "taking advantage", you have to remember it's the students who are willing to do this work. If it was that big of an issue for them, and everyone resisted it, then you wouldn't see stuff like this happening.

The issue with this is that its the senior artists who are saying DERP DERP PAY YUR DEWS DERP.

I’ve only been in one situation where a senior level artist walked to management and threatened to quit if all interns weren’t paid. They then decided to pay the interns.

Believe me, personally I will only work for pay now. But two or three years ago it was different.

And the biggest reason that students severely undercut themselves is because no one tells them what standard rates are in this industry. They leave school not knowing whether a good paying job pays 10$ an hr or 40$ an hr.

The Gnomon Studio perpetuates this problem.