Frustration about Art judgement

#105

How big of a group is enough? I think there are about 7 or so right now. It is a volunteer position so we can’t just add more. It is a responsibility that takes up your precious time everyday and it is a thankless job.

#106

Thanks Lunatique. Now I know it are 7 people. That should be enough, given the fact that all 7 judge every submission to get that weighted decision I’m pleading for.
If all 7 split the loadwork, which I can perfectly understand because of time/effort, then the decision still is too subjective and not weighted.

So what’s the daily amount of submissions which need to be judged? 50? 100? 250?

#107

My opinion about the drawing :slight_smile:

I have seen this lot of times, but I see the base anatomy is wrong… you added a lot of color and effects and that makes your pic “eye catching”, but if you analize in deep and skip the color and effects you will see the mistakes in the structure.

Colors can’t correct the base drawing structure, but they distract the eye.

Look in deep and you will you see, and yes, art is subjective, but the facts are in front of your eyes. Nice pic but improve the structure.

#108

I notice this thread from Newsletter, and it got my attention since I’ve had exactly the same question about my last submission:
https://www.cgsociety.org/cgsarchive/newgallerycrits/g45/416045/416045_1318668848_large.jpg ,
which was rejected, despite the fact some earlier works of mine which I think are worse were instead accepted. Previously, I was also surprised to hear that even this one of Narcius:
http://narcius.cgsociety.org/gallery/1004361/
didn’t make it, and it is also much better than many other in the Gallery, so I wondered if the judging criteria had changed and how.
I also received exactly the same email message as Pierluigi did, and, to those who said that constructive critique must be accepted (which I agree with!), I must anyway say that this kind of standard messages are clearly not helpful to understand why the image didn’t come in, because they don’t really account for the specific flaws the mods found in the submitted picture. The explanation, in this thread, about how mods work and why is much more informative than the standard email sent to people.

At DeviantArt there are also groups who accept or deny pictures on a quality basis. Normally there are 3 judges and majority decides. They’re also doing this job on a volunteer base. The difference is that you can send a comment and kindly ask for feedback when a image is denied, which is very helpful. I can understand that maybe it’s difficult to have something similar here, but in this can be better to just give a link to “how the mods work” as other suggest, instead to send a mail message which is not that helpful.

#109

Pierluigi,

Your work is great, and it´s unreal that it has been rejected (!) .

Please , don´t let this nonsense interfere with your art .

#110

Well maybe I could still understand why your image may not be up to the gallery standarts (it’s not “finished”, it has some blurry parts and some neat parts like the drops) …
But the second image is definately “finished” and very good, so it’s obviously all about personal taste and luck.
The system could maybe use 2 or 3 different replies, so people know at least the general problem (it’s unfinished or anatomy wrong or … I don’t know, boring subject)

#111

Well maybe I could still understand why your image may not be up to the gallery standarts (it’s not “finished”, it has some blurry parts and some neat parts like the drops) …

Huh? The blurry parts and neat parts are supposed to simulate depth of field, and on the bee’s wings motion. The Pic is original and done well, in my opinion. Not sure what you’re talking about, unless I’m missing something? Art is subjective, but I’m afraid this argument is always going to pop up here; even when our requests are met (more than one judge, etc.).

#112

Huh? The blurry parts and neat parts are supposed to simulate depth of field, and on the bee’s wings motion. The Pic is original and done well, in my opinion. Not sure what you’re talking about, unless I’m missing something? Art is subjective, but I’m afraid this argument is always going to pop up here; even when our requests are met (more than one judge, etc.). __________________

+1

@ Zykras: you shouldnt confuse a “rough brush style” with “unfinished”. actually i do like the first picture/link a lot more than the second angel picture… just my taste

#113

Argh my english is not the best, I actually wanted to say that I still “could” understand why it got rejected (if there was a standart like “it has to be rendered to the final stage” or something)
I like the picture, I’m just trying to find out what could be the reason for the rejection.
But it’s always hard to be in my place, people get either upset because they think I choose one side (which I actually try to avoid) or they get upset because they say I can’t choose a side.
In general I prefer either a fully rendered picture or really rough brushwork/sketches, that’s my personal taste. Maybe also due to the fact that my paintings look too rendered to be rough and impressionist and not finished enough to meet my own taste.

#114

That’s alright Zykras; no one’s getting upset at you for having a point of view. :wink: No worries.

#115

Same thing happened to me with one of my pieces ( http://tomsegal.deviantart.com/art/Ascension-264536456 ), I spent months working on it and I’m pretty proud of the result but apparently it wasn’t good enough. No matter, I created it for my own sake and I still think that, while its far from perfect, its good enough for me, and I like it.

#116

I don’t get it. Just move on. If your that invested in it, update it and resubmit it. Just means it will be better than before. that’s a good thing.

#117

It’s misleading to tell people to “improve” the image, because that sounds like they should fiddle around until it looks good. That’s where the talk about brush settings and other nonsense comes from.

The weakness of the original post image is not lack of detail but the basic anatomy.

I think this is constructive advice: Leave the computer, take figure drawing lessons and move on to a new piece.

#118

That would be the mature way of handling this situation.

#119

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressionism

The Académie had an annual, juried art show, the Salon de Paris, and artists whose work was displayed in the show won prizes, garnered commissions, and enhanced their prestige. The standards of the juries represented the values of the Académie, represented by the works of such artists as Jean-Léon Gérôme and Alexandre Cabanel. Some younger artists painted in a lighter and brighter manner than painters of the preceding generation, extending further the realism of Gustave Courbet and the Barbizon school. They were more interested in painting landscape and contemporary life than in recreating scenes from history. Each year, the works they submitted to the Salon jury were rejected in favour of works by artists faithful to the approved style. A group of young realists, Claude Monet, Pierre-Auguste Renoir, Alfred Sisley, and Frédéric Bazille, who had studied under Charles Gleyre, became friends and often painted together. They gathered at the Café Guerbois, where the discussions were often led by Édouard Manet, whom the younger artists greatly admired. They were soon joined by Camille Pissarro, Paul Cézanne, and Armand Guillaumin.[2]

 In 1863, the jury rejected Manet's [i][The Luncheon on the Grass](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Luncheon_on_the_Grass)[/i] [i](Le déjeuner sur l'herbe)[/i]  primarily because it depicted a nude woman with two clothed men at a  picnic. While nudes were routinely accepted by the Salon when featured  in historical and allegorical paintings, the jury condemned Manet for  placing a realistic nude in a contemporary setting.[[3]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressionism#cite_note-2)  The jury's severely worded rejection of Manet's painting appalled his  admirers, and the unusually large number of rejected works that year  perturbed many French artists.

 After seeing the rejected works in 1863, Emperor Napoleon III decreed  that the public be allowed to judge the work themselves, and the [Salon des Refusés](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_des_Refus%C3%A9s)  (Salon of the Refused) was organized. While many viewers came only to  laugh, the Salon des Refusés drew attention to the existence of a new  tendency in art and attracted more visitors than the regular Salon.[[4]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressionism#cite_note-3)
#120

So, I’d say, the history lesson is: define whom are you creating the artwork for. Once you know the answer the rest should be straight forward - find out what the targeted people like and try to make it. If they don’t like it blame yourself for not achieving your goal. If you think it is not fair when they don’t like your work after you think they liked similar or worse works, again blame yourself because it is obvious you didn’t figure that out quite well because as long as some people continue to like some works but not yours it is up to you to find out what exactly it is they like and make it.
If your audience is undefined and you are creating artworks for yourself, then when some people don’t like your work, again blame yourself because you haven’t put any effort to make something for them.
If you blame people because they don’t put the effort to see your work with your eyes and enjoy it as you do, sorry but you want too much :p.

Just my 2 cents :wink:

#121

So many times we over complicate things, and imho that’s the case in CGS’s Gallery. Work that is rejected should be REEEAAALLLYYY low in quality, like, obviously BAAAAD, so bad it’s beyond a simple comment or a constructive crit, not ready for other people to see, the kind of work that no one would start a thread like this over, AND more so, get so many people arguing over the validity of rejection. As soon as that happens any Mod should see and admit he’s wrong. CGS Gallery use to be a beautiful place back in time, u could hardly see a thread like this, now one pops every month…
So why can’t we just keep it simple!? please!
much love,
M

#122

Yes. Because one complaint in a month out of the literally hundreds of rejected images means the entire system is deeply flawed and should be changed, right? I’m not saying the system is perfect, but honestly it astounds me how people will point fingers of blame in every direction instead of considering that maybe their work isn’t that great. If you want to look at mediocre work, then go to deviantart.

#123

anyway…

#124

The problem of mankind in such a many disciplines and areas. You look up to someone or something, you hone your skills and knowledge trying to aim for what your idols do. Some people go past their idols, boxers cry when they have won their youth idols, hockey players, artists, authors, writers, you name it. There will be always bigger fish, there will always be those who simply are not yet ready or can never be as creative as their idols. Yet we have twisted expectations and perception of ourself. Some more distorted than others.

Now, combine this setting with the eager to be recognized. All the respect and admiration the champions get on any sports, how much money some of the best artists make or how much worldwide recognition they get. There is always tendency for people to want get the same. unfortunately in reality there are no shortcuts. What happens to the CGS gallery when everyone can get their picture there? Inflation. What happens to olympic medal if everyone gets one? Inflation.

No matter that the subject is, there will be people who feel they should be recognized. Its quite complicated looking mechanisms between the psychological needs and how our minds work on our society. But one thing is for sure, as soon as inflation happens the system destroys itself on artificial entropy of what one admires. it can only survive when there are certain, preferably small portion that pushes the behaviour out of the safe zone. Some can push too much, and may not be understood at first. For some artists it may take lifetime or 2 for their work to be understood. Usually in such phenomena like CGS gallery the signal disturbance from exceptional people is adequate to keep the system pushing forward in terms of quality and creativity.

Maybe some take this as pure rambling but…