Frustration about Art judgement

#1

Hi everyone, I’m writing this here because I need a third party opinion about one of my paintings.

Today I posted this image to CGTalk: http://PierluigiAbbondanza.cgsociety.org/gallery/1014456/

and I get the following message as reply:
“Your submission has been declined for the following reason(s):
Your image currently does not meet the general quality level of the Showcase Gallery. We suggest you keep working on improving your understanding of the critical foundations of visual art (composition, perspective, lighting, values, color, anatomy, figure…etc), and try again in the future when you feel you have significantly surpassed your current level of skill and knowledge.”

Now, I know I’m not the best artist in the world and that I have to learn a lot but I’ve been very surprised of the rejection because at least the 70% of the other images I submitted before this one have been accepted and are for sure not as good as this one. Also looking just to the first page of the 2D Showcase on CGTalk I found (in my opinion) some paintings which are not the best example of composition, perspective, lighting, values, color, anatomy, figure…etc. Of course there are also many, many great pieces too inside the Showcase.

Another thing that makes me more confused is the fact that this image is one of the 3 winners of the Conceptart.org competition judged by Stephan Martiniere, Todd Lockwood and Lars Grant-West and also Jon Foster and Jason Manley spent good words about this piece which I consider one of the best I’ve ever made.

What I’m asking here is an opinion from other artists from the forum in order to understand if I’m going totally wrong about my art because you know I’m very confused at the moment…

Thank you in advance to the ones which will share their opinions on that.

Cheers!
Pierluigi Abbondanza

#2

dont base your talent and success on an opinion on a forum. Do it for yourself. If you are commishioned, do it for your client. You just need to get past a forum’s acceptance for the ego stroke. Then it will not matter and you should no longer be confused.

#3

Its a good painting. Its not brilliant, there are things that could be improved like you seem to aknowledge in your first post, but it’s a really solid piece of work, congrats. Like the previous poster said, dont let forum acceptance and rejection define how you feel about your work.

N

#4

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciated it and I absolutely agree that I have to do Art because is what I love to do.

I just want to specify that it’s not an ego problem, it’s just a matter of understanding for me if I’m going in the right direction or not… I have no formal Art tuition and being exposed to other artists opinion is a great way for me to learn. And a part from this is also a good way to be exposed to Art Directors and Editors.

Thank you again!

#5

Hi. I usually blame users opening this kind of threads, because imo, most of the time they dont have a reason to complain…in other words… there is a reason to rejection.
In this case, i think this piece is a lot better than a lot others that pass the filter.

I guess that maybe this is a mistake? this is up to the standars of the showcase without a doubt.

#6

Curious how long you spent on this painting?

There’s no definition in the hair.

The characters right hand looks very rushed.

The skin tones look featureless and blown out.

What are those things in her hair? they add nothing to the painting, they communicate nothing about the character.

The characters left ear looks very unfinished.

The characters pelvis/waist region looks unnaturally narrow/thin.

To repeat some of the other comments; its ok, just nothing exceptionally different to what we’ve seen many, many times before. It’s a fantasy girl, in a typical pose, with birds flapping around. It doesn’t really communicate anything to me other than; its a fantasy girl … in a fairly typically pose … with birds flapping around her. For me personally you need to communicate a story in the painting or create a surprising juxtaposition; something unexpected.

It may indeed be the best piece you’ve ever created in your life, it may indeed have won various awards on other websites judged by the likes of Stephan Martiniere, Todd Lockwood etc, however this isn’t conceptart.org

Again, a nice piece, but nothing exceptional. Maybe for future paintings consider creating a more established scene that communicates a greater story arc :slight_smile:

Dave.

#7

The current judging system is based on votes, so there could be differing opinions among the people who are voting. One judge might vote to reject your piece, while another might vote to let your piece into the gallery, but it’s not a majority vote system–it’s a system that only requires the minimum of two votes in either direction, so it’s likely the final outcome is not even the majority vote. It’s just whoever the two judges happened to have seen it first, and if they happen to agree with each other. But it has to be this way, because we cannot count on a majority vote system due to the fact that judging is volunteer work, and sometimes judges are on vacation or too busy, so the two votes minimum system alleviates the complications that arises when not enough judges have cast votes for a majority total.

While I would have voted positive for you piece (nice color scheme, mood, and overall aesthetic vibe), I also think it can be improved still, such as the points others already made.

Generally speaking, it’s great to have selective focus and a painterly style, but you have to make sure the areas you are playing down still have enough definition for a look of consistency across the whole image, regardless of the selective detailing approach.

#8

Yes, but you could enumerate as much as points to improve in every of the currently images in the showcase gallery.

I don´t agree with Lunatiquet about the lack of consistency. I think this piece is very consistent. I can´t see a great detailed zones vs unfinished ones. Is all coherent here, there is an armony to it, a flow. Not saying is perfect or that couldn´t be improve, but those cases (that don´t need to improve) are reserved for the choice gallery as far as i know.
Personaly i find a lot more artistic merit in this painting than in more than the 50% of the currently displayed pictures in the showcase gallery.

I´m not sure any of the mods care of my suggestion, but i´ll give it anyway.

Before rejecting an image, take a look at what is currently showing in showcase so the standar is consistent of your side too. I know i´m involving a little too much here for something that is not directly related with me. But i can understand the frustration of the OP since it seems just an unfair decision the rejection.

#9

It’s a nice piece, you did a good job, and by the sounds of it you are very proud and happy with it, and that is all that really matters in the end, that you like it. But I do agree with the critiques as well, every aspect of a painting or artwork should have a reason for being in the final composition, if it does not add to the character, mood, or point you are trying to make you should leave it out, because otherwise it becomes distraction from what you want the viewer to see. As for your direction I think you are on the right track just keep at it.

#10

Hey Dave, thank you for your comments. I don’t know exactly how much time I spent on it but I developed the piece in a temporal window of approximately 3 weeks (but I paint only at night because I have a full day job).
I can say this piece had more details in the middle lavoration stage, but many of them has beer toned down in order to focus on specific areas of interest (for example the hear and the hair has been painted very detailed but the was capturing too much attention and were too distracting so I toned them down). Another example of that are the birds. They have no details in the final piece but has been a conscious choice, because when I painted them there were details but again they were grabbing too much attention and were stopping the flow of the image.
Since I’m self taught I always had (and also unfortunately have) the tendency to over render images, to let them look like a photo (as you can see from some old paintings f mine) but I’m trying as much as I can to not do that now. For me a painting shouldn’t look like a photo to be judjed good. While I like some artists which creates supe rendered images the ones I love most are Frazetta, Jeff Jones, Justin Sweet, Jon Foster… which are exactly the opposite to the plastic/over rendered look that is so diffused today (I don’t want to be compared with them, it’s just what my major influences are).

About the meaning of the image/composition it was explained in the original post here: http://pierluigiabbondanza.cgsociety.org/gallery/
It’s just half of the final image because we were supposed to create a diptych in collaboration with another artist and the theme was “Beauty and Nightmare” (I worked on the beauty part). The complete diptych is visible here if you want to take a look: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3225970#post3225970

I know this is not Conceptart.org but I expected to receive a fair judjement here too because as I said there are other pieces in the Showcase which are not so perfect too…

Thank you again for your comments, I’ll keep them in mind for my future pieces! :slight_smile:

#11

Thank you for sharing your opinion and for explaining me the judjement system. I agree the piece can be improved in some areas but also still think it’s not worst than some of the Showcased pieces and it was that which confused/frustrate me.
My reply to other posts should have better explained my intentions/choices while I was painitng it.
Thank you again :slight_smile:

#12

Thank you very much for exposing yourelf so much in something which is not directly related to you. I appreciated this very much! I also think since we’re all artist here knowing how moderators are judging can help us deciding if post an image to CGTalk or not… maybe it’s onlt the fact that here they want to showcase only super rendered pieces so the style I’m trying to achieve is not compliant to this website. If this is the case I’ll just save my time by not posting my new paintings here (and moderators time too since they shouldn’t judge them).
I don’t want to be polemic, my intention is just to understand something it’s not clear to me…

#13

XLNT-3d nailed it,
Focus on more important things than whining about being rejected from some internet gallery.
How would you benefit really if they had let it through?

#14

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts!

#15

I would have benefit because I would have received more exposure to other artists, art directors, and editors who eventually could have been able to post their comments/advices on my piece.

It’s not an ego trip. It’s that since I’m self taught and work constantly alone at home at night after day job it’s not simple knowing what I do wrong, so receaving other artists opinion about my pieces is the only thing which will help me improve.

I posted here just to receive constructive feedback from other artists.

I post on DeviantArt to satisfy my ego :wink:

#16

Read the book “blink” and you’ll understand why people make snap descions that can seem against your feelings. a few minor things look off about that image and whilst you could go in the showcase and find “worse” pieces, you’d maybe be surprised at why someone could look at another image you consider worse and go “I love it!”

People arent rational always. But in this case I feel one of the things that would make me think against putting it in the showcase is how “sketchy” it looks in places like the hand, or the fact the perspective of the box is wierd, And the fact it looks like Katie Price (Jordan) although thats a preference rather than a reason for not selecting it…

Its a good image, and I wouldnt worry that it doesnt make it into the showcase on one website.

#17

I agree about that but I supposed people who has the task of judging should be able to do this well, being able to recognize waht’s good from what’s not. What’s been rushed from what’s been left rough for a reason.

Forgive me but while I know it’s not perfect I see other paintings with the same problems in the Showcase.

I know it’s not a drama and of course I won’t stop painting for that :)… but in my opinion it’s just sad that a great website like this, which should push artists forward in their path, sometimes do exactly the opposite…
It reminds me of GFXArtist… in which there was a moderator who continuously rejected my works because she was convinced they were paintovers (you know I did over rendered images at that time)… even if they’re not…

Thank you for having shared your thoughts :slight_smile:

#18

I think it needs to be understood that the tastes among the people who are doing the judging can differ dramatically. There are times when I log in to do the judging, I see pieces other judges have marked as ready to be accepted that makes me go, “WTF? Really? The anatomy is horrible, the technique is very clumsy and the overall aesthetics very lacking overall,” and there are times when pieces are marked for rejection makes me go “WTF? This piece is obviously superior artistically and technically than the stuff that’s being marked for rejection.”

But that’s just how it is. We have different opinions, even among the judges. So don’t take it personally.

Like someone else said, in the grand scheme of things, what more would you have gained by getting the piece in? A bit of comfort for the ego? A tiny bit more exposure for your work? These days, it seems like unless you are getting CG Choice Awards, no one really cares anymore, since we are bombarded with incredible work from all around the world every day–to the point people are spoiled by all the amazing works they can easily see on the internet. In the end, I think as long as you have the piece in the portfolio, people will still get to see it, and that’s not so bad. Then down the line, when your work becomes so kickass that even the judges who voted against you would have to accept the piece into the gallery without question. That’s when you get your real satisfaction–knowing that regardless of taste, your work is so good that even those who don’t share your taste will have to admit it’s kicking ass.

#19

if there was a fire extinguisher in the corner i would pick it for cgtalk award

#20

Once your in the gallery here life is easy from that point on it’s like a rockstar lifestyle, money, women, cars, houses, jewelry, and such just start falling into your lap. So I see why these threads pop up every other week. :rolleyes: