from LW8 videos. features (cool or lame)


#1

i have only seen a few videos of what lw8 can do. just wondering what are your thoughts, feature wise. is it comparable to other apps like motionbuilder/messiah? it is heaps better than the current version of lw in terms of setting up ik but from a personal point of view, it seems like theres a lot of right clicking to access the ik menu instead of a panel where you can modify things.

i have only seen 2 videos. i like to know what you think about the features of lw8.


#2

Everything i have seen so far in the movies is just awesom work!
Nice Newtek!!


#3

well…
after spending the last year working on large projects with Max, Maya and XSI i’m sad to say that i’m not too impressed.

it looks like a step in the right direction, but they are still way behind the competition.
i was talking with some of my friends who also worked on LW until a while ago (some for many years) and they all said the same thing - LW should get a major rewrite asap.
the current architechture just can’t handle all the things that are being implemented into all the other aps.


#4

agree… newtek did somethin but that is not a real step forward… collecting plugins around and putting it into new version is not big deal… specially when we can see FREE plugins like david ikeda tools to be presented as FEATURES…
it would be nice to see some general tools like REAL workin SPLINE tools in layout where i can edit/animate spline that will work seamless with other things like parenting, constrains, ik, bones… imagine deform bones along spline curve… huh…
or to see workin constrains with IK system(not booster)… and so on…
maybe all that will be but, as we saw with lw 6 … lw 7.5 is what 6 should look like… maybe lw 9.5 will be more like what we expected of lw8… time will tell

sorry for my bad eng… c u


#5

I’m pretty excited about what I’ve seen so far in terms of new features in LW8, I’m just holding statements untill I take that baby for a spin.

I’ve been working with some other bigname apps recently, so the heat is definatly on.


#6

hmmm… I have worked with Max (mainly) and Maya for a number of years now… Both are great packages with excellent tool sets. Max was my preferred choice (I work in computer games) but was never going to be affordable for home use… enter Lightwave!

I have only really been using LW for the last month or so (although I bought it nearly a year ago!) and have really warmed to the package, esp Modeller. However, some things have driven me nuts as I work on my first LW project… …no edge selection- tools!!/Mapping is umm… quirky/virtually no undo in Layout (ok ONE for RTS - hardly counts)/can’t adjust keyframes on the timeline!! - arrgggg/ … I am sure this only scratches the surface for a lot of folk… but you get my drift…

NOW, (getting to the point) from what I have seen of LW8… I would say nearly all my issues will be addressed (dope stuff looks fab!!) The team seem to have sat down and and really tuned the old girl (LW that is) to a much higher level… my credit card is brimming with anticipation!!! - can’t wait!


#7

I’m wondering if the videos that were shown are the major new features in LW8, or if there are going to be more. I think LW8 is going in the direction I thought it would, which is good, but not great. Implementing the new tools in Modeler was ok, but I hope for N-gons and some other bigger upgrades for Modeler in LW8.5. For me the upgrade to LW8 will be worth it, but if I was a Professional LW user, don’t know… well, the Pro’s can answer that :slight_smile:

Btw, I hope they fix this problem in next version>
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15734

,and a support for Edge weighting would be nice :).
http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/c4d/highlights_c4d/movie_modeling.html

Better DOF renders and implementation of Shadow Designer, m-yeah, plus maybe a SSS plug-in.

BTW, I don’t care that much about that they are plug-ins, as long as it works.

Bottom line, LW8 scores 8 out of 10 me thinks.


#8

from what you guys have seen so far, the upgrade is a step into the right direction but not enought to be competitve with other packages like your maya or soft, even motionbuilder. my gathering so far is newtek just implemented a bunch of plugins and call it a upgrade?


#9

Just from an engineering standpoint –

One thing that you can’t show in a video is all the work “under the hood”.

Another thing too – is that opinions are personal - there isn’t a thing that anyone can do or say to change opinions.

Before anything is really lableled – wait until there is a demo that you can mess around with.

Making decisions based on early release videos is not honestly recommended, in my opinion.

Wait 'till it’s all done – then make the decision.

Just my opinion again, and I more than likely will not respond anymore to this thread, as I can already fortell it’s direction.

Oh, and no - I can’t tell you any info about “under the hood” changes – as it’s still in progress. That information will come from proper channels, and at the proper time.

Thanks all - and have a good new year.


#10

I hate to say it but i’ve been pretty underwhelmed myself. When looking at other packages, lightwave is way behind in terms of features.

The modeler is still nice but you can get about the same functionality if not more out of XSI allready. Lightwave needed to step ahead of the competition to really be competitive, and from what i’ve seen they haven’t even pulled even.


#11

“i have only seen 2 videos.”

Well, download the rest and watch it for yourself. You should also check for other threads because there were tons about the same topic. You can read lots of oppinions about Lightwave’s new features. Look for them! Actually a few of them are closed. I feel your question provocative and we don’t need new flame wars!

Cheers,
Krix


#12

Well, speaking as a “Pro user” I can say it’s definetly worth the upgrade, probably more so than for hobbyists.

Here’s my prejudices:
Pretty much all the stuff they’ve done in Layout I would label “cool”, specifically the Expression Editor (something alot of other apps don’t have yet) and Dope Track (which other apps have had for many years and was sorely lacking) and ofcourse the IK/bones setup improvements.
Plus the dynamics stuff looks far easier to use than the other apps I’m familiar with.

The “lame” in my mind is in the additions to Modeler. Some stuff that is must-haves is the Add Edges tool and Edge Bevel and perhaps the Bridge tool. The other stuff I’ll be removing from the interface as clutter.
An interesting example was in one of the videos, Proton pointed out a new tool to select poly loops and that he used to use Bandsaw to do this, with the split tag turned off. Well, to me that’s far more elegant than an extra tool just to do what it can already do. All you should have to do is set the default of Bandsaw to not cut.
Other than that there’s a crap load of workflow improvements in Modeler, such as all tools playing friendly with symmetry - stuff like that. But I’m hoping some of that’s the “under the hood” kind of stuff alluded to by Deuce

But I digress. I certainly feel they’ve caught up, and in places overtaken, atleast in workflow, some other apps in the animation department. It’s just getting a bit cluttered and over engineered, in Modeler specifically.

I could go on but I’m sure no one’s read this far… :slight_smile:


#13

I’ve seen all the videos I’m very happy i got the DXF+ update
they were mainly 2 things in LW8 that i personlly wanted

Motiion designer rewrite
( which NT looks to have done a amazing job of )

and dopesheet keyframe editor
( Again better then i dreamed of )

Really would like to have graph editor total intime and in tune with the main layout window Still waiting to see if that’s been done…

the New IK and bone editing tools ( bone tools not shown yet )
are a really advanced and Lightwave already has the best modeler so any new stuff there is great ( love the selection sets in the lower corner in LW 8 )
and free plugins are one of the major plus’s lightwave has
getting them updated and add to the main package is a cool thing

NOW i must have abit of a go at the people saying it’s way behide the Max’s and Maya of the world
PLEASE STATE WHAT WE ARE MISSING in LW 8 that you’ve got !!!

i can take the fact that lightwave render isn’t get’in a big update and max / Maya can now uses mental ray for me isn’t that big of a deal this means more work to setup a good render and no chance of me having a render farm :shrug:

SPLINE tools huh ? i work in the graph editor and seems cool to me, Might not understand your point there & that’s a very small thing there’s a alot of small things that LW does better then both Maya and Max

Sorry this might start a Software war:cry: but hey you started it :smiley:


#14

I’m looking forward to it too, the workflow enhancements and integrated dynamics alone are worth the price; and it’s for certain that NewTek haven’t shown us everything that’s going to be in there yet.


#15

LW8 is a great update from many angles IMHO. A lot of new functions seem to have been added. And I hope most of the bugs are fixed. And we had this killer app called DFX+. All this work plus DFX+ for € 500…

Obviously we always want more. Among my feature request I would say

==> faster renderer,
==> Ngons and actual edge modification (BTW the edge weighting from Maxon looks great. Same effects could be done in LW if the subpatch weight map had 2 values).
==> another surface editor perhaps node-based (coming from Max, I find the material editor much more intuitive than LW’s. Sorry, I have not looked seriously in Maya’s or XSI’s).
==> Real spline animation in Layout.

Obviously everything that other packages can do can be done with LW. But we need to explore a lot of hidden function or sometimes find THE trick. Lot of time spent to do things which are very intuitive with other packages.

I think (in fact I hope) NT had the right move. LW will soon take back its place in the market with innovation and creativity.

Deuce ==> I can imagine that a lot of things are done “under the hood”… But please, I think that revealing part of what is “under the hood” could be a marketing plus to convince those who hesitate :drool:


#16

Just want to state the below as opinion :slight_smile:

as long as there are some kind of pole vector equivalent, and a reasonable spline solution (for bones, as mentioned before) I will be happy.

but, one thing that has constantly bugged me is having to create workarounds for motion and curve plugins that fail to read IK data. Thats just a no brainer, I can’t believe that has been left out for this long.

Also, the ability to at least test skelegon deformation in modeler. Dstorm can do it, why cannot newtek?

These have been my major gripes. I do say that, as my business grows and capital becomes less of a worry, we will have to shift to XSI methinks. It is a hassle to spend so much on the program, and then render nodes as well, but after spending some time learning it I am realising what they are charging for. Things work, they are clever, the workflow fast. It has been well thought out, and aimed squarely at giving a very polished tool for you to produce polished work within time/budget constraints, which is where the investment is repaid.

Don’t get hurt by these coments, I love lightwave, will always be my home tool, but as time goes on its still feels kinda pro-sumer. I love the morph implementation, making it very nice to do facial blend setups (“Stop Staring” style), but XSI has nicer control setup for that as well. With LW, everything feels really-good-but-not-quite-there.

I realise the size difference between newtek and avid, and the consequent resource difference.

Anyway, I don’t normally participate in “what-if” threads, but I just felt like offering thoughts and comments :slight_smile:

hope the new year was wonderful for all!

new years love an kisses

the Doc.


#17

Originally posted by T4D
NOW i must have abit of a go at the people saying it’s way behide the Max’s and Maya of the world
PLEASE STATE WHAT WE ARE MISSING in LW 8 that you’ve got !!!

I agree.

I’ve never been in Maya or Max long enough to do anything. I open up the program and get presented with a ton of incoherent icons as readable as Egyptian hieroglyphics. Once the heart attacks subside I go right back to something that can be understood, aka Lightwave.

And as someone else mentioned. If you don’t like it don’t use it!


#18

I guess I would disagree, I would like to see more Maya/XSI/3DS stuff on threads like this, BUT I would want it to be constructive. I’d love to know more about what we are missing and why we should have it, I really don’t think we can know enough about the different apps out there. Don’t misunderstand me though, I don’t like posts like “XSI has ____ so Lightwave sucks” or “Maya.” Rather I’d love to see “XSI has ____, it’s good for doing such and such and has the advantages over Lightwave because…”

Not saying this thread should be like that or there should be tons of these around, but I wouldn’t mind seeing it every once in a while as long as it’s positive and constructive. I’d also love to see Lightwavers respond on how they do workaround and such. I guess the bottom line is that I don’t want other app people to go away, just respect that this is a LW forum and if you want to be involved post stuff that is helpful to the threads.

I don’t mean to say that everyone coming from other apps isn’t doing this either.


#19

Originally posted by N2ChristTheKing
I guess I would disagree, I would like to see more Maya/XSI/3DS stuff on threads like this, BUT I would want it to be constructive. I’d love to know more about what we are missing and why we should have it, I really don’t think we can know enough about the different apps out there. Don’t misunderstand me though, I don’t like posts like “XSI has ____ so Lightwave sucks” or “Maya.” Rather I’d love to see “XSI has ____, it’s good for doing such and such and has the advantages over Lightwave because…”

I think that would be very constructive.

Something being better or worse than something else is a personal opinion that everyone has. It would make a whole lot more sense to everyone else to give the all so important WHY? Go on, take it that extra step and give your explaination for your opinions.


#20

hmmmm…
guess most ppl here thought of me as “another app person trying to bush LW”.
well, i’ve been using lightwave since version 4 came out as my only app at work and home untill about a year ago.
i don’t realy have much time to write now, but later on i’ll have a list of things i’d like to see in LW.
for now all i can say is that as great as LW modeler is, i like XSI’s better.edges, ngons, nurbs,history, the ability to use animation tools as part of the modeling process,every feature is animatable and so on.
right now i’m working as a TD and also supervising the modeling of characters for animation.
we are doing it all in maya, and i’m sad to say that LW is way behind on rigging, animation, and effects.
we have no problems tranfering weight maps and morph targets between models, the whole rigging process is fast and stronger then anithing lw has to offer now.the expression editor looks good, but maya’s hypergraph looks much stronger (from what i could tell from the video).

i like LW and i still use it at home, but for what i do now it’s just isnt up to the competition.
u can do anything with any app, the question is how long it will take you and how hard will it be.