Frames Of A Neckling, Timur Baysal (3D)

#104

No need to apologize, all is well! :wink:

Setting up that head was a playfull half an hour, but only because of a few rendertests. Once you know what you’re going for, it’s a matter of seconds of putting the pieces in. You can also simply work out one half it and mirror your setup to the other side. Whenever you add something like a “muscle”-bone and its target, you can just mirror it over. That speeds it up tremendously. Not to mention that the setup mode allows you to do your animationtest and adjust things at any time afterwards, keeping your animation, you can even change the geometry if that’s what it takes, but in this case it was extremely simple.
I guess the “option” for the bones could be called either a straight forward ordinary bone, or a muscle-bone, which requires to put in a target for the bone to stretch and orient to. These are build in features of the bone system and therefore are very simple. The mirror action includes the mirroring of the target automatically as well, so you don’t have to worry about that at all. Besides, due to it’s flexible nature you can use anything as a target, including other bones. This way you can create chains of deforms as well!:smiley:

As for the rendering, there are a few things that it only needs to compute ones, which it does in a millisecond preprocessing but it saves a lot of operations for each point. After that, the mapping is done at rendertime of course. This technique allows to not only map images flat along a bone, but to even twist it based on the “muscle”-bones original orientation and the targets rotation. This is very powerful due to the fact that none of the mapping is flat, but instead it is volumetric and can remap procedurals as well as images.

The only drawback at the moment is, that there’s no openGL displacement YET! So in order to see what your displacement looks like you have to render it. The big advantage in messiah:Studio is, that it renders incredibly fast, even with GI turned on at decent qualties. For such tests, although this might be considered silly, I actually have mostly everything turned on…gives me the final look right away. Depending on the level of complexity of course…if a render takes more than 30sec I switch the GI off for the tests…haha… :stuck_out_tongue:

I will prepare a simple tutorial that will show exactly how to set all of this up, and the only reason why I havn’t really done such a tutorial yet is because I’ve started to take the simplicity of it for granted a long time ago and it’s difficult for me to realize that people simply don’t know about it or can’t imagine how comfortable it is. That’s sort of a general problem I have…I apologize for that myself.

#105

Yess… u diserve this kinda responce!!:applause:

CONGO!

SAM
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=189400

#106

[left]looks gr8 and perfect with just 340 polys man :slight_smile:
[/left]

#107

Thank You!:slight_smile:

#108

I’ve missed a beat here.

Displacement maps work by subdividing polygons, and then moving the new vertices out along that poly’s normal according to the map, yes? That way, they aren’t limitied to within the silhouette.

If that’s the case, then where’s the benefit? I mean, all those subdivided polys still have to be rendered, right? Why is using displacement maps different from just having a really high-res model to start with?

#109

By now it may even be difficult for me to explain the entire depth of why subdivision based rendering and the animation of low polygon cages is the current state of the art in 3D by choice, because it has quite some amount of reasons for it’s justified success.
But let’s start at the easiest of all points:

  • moving around large numbers of points may seem effortless during rendering, but in realtime performance as it is necessary during the animation process it is next to impossible to deal with. If the renderer grants itself several seconds to generate this new dense geometry for each new frame it renders, in realtime you don’t have a second between each frame, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to see the animation while you are working on it.

And some more points:

  • a low polygon cage can be designed to deform correctly, by controlling just a few easily and visually separatable vertecies. When you build a setup with deformers like bones for instance, you can place them based on the visual feedback your model provides. During the smooth subdivision process for generating the dense geometry that gets eventually rendered, it interpolates between the edges of the low resolution mesh to compute a smooth surface. It still requires a little bit of experience to make use of that trade most efficiently, but this experience is easily and quickly aquired!

  • The displacement possibility then allows you to fill in the vast amount of detail that such a subdivided geomtery will offers to you without interferring with your low polygon animation procedures. Some tools even allow you to animated those displacement independently from your low polygon cage and therefore allow access to this otherwise inaccessable phase to the animation during rendering.

I’m sure there are quite a whole lot more beautiful ways to mention as for why all of this, but hopeful for now that gave you an idea. I just give you one more aspect of it and that is the number of detailed objects you can deal with in one scene. Due to the subdivision principle and the ability to completely rely on the details such models can get through displacement, you can populate a scene with large amounts of them…let’s say a large group of protestors during a peace demonstration. With the right software and a proper machine it then may even be possible to animate such groups and observe them together close enough to realtime to still make judgements. Saving such a scene or better loading such a scene would only take a ridicolously small fraction of the time it were taking if you had all these models with highly detailed geometries.

Ah…if somebody else is in the mood to think about all of this again, it’s kind of fun, but I had enough of it for now… :wink:

#110

i love those expressions! good job!

#111

love the way you showed motion in the neck.

#112

excellent 3d i’ve seen so far.

#113

divertingness生动

#114

its fantastic to see how the subpixel displacement technique is making such progresses, and can make your life easier.
i’d actually like Lightwave had this as well, but fortunately there are apps like messiah XSI etc. that make a good use of it. animated displacement advances the progress even more ! :slight_smile: really great thing.

I like it because allow you not to waiste time working on scenes given the fact it all happens on rendering and that it allows to make a top notch work.

#115

Hi how are you…I got your dvd and its great so far i only went through it fast to some parts i wanted to see, are u going to have any dvds with other polygon modeling methods like…edge extrusion. I usually do the head with edge extrusion, and do the body from primitives, cylinders for hand, body, legs…and model hands separately. Ears i do what u do, off the head.

That is all my question for you, i just wanted to ask if you have any other method than using a box to model. I love the way the outcome came out, but personally i have not seen anyone starting with a cube and finishing everything on that cube to model the whole body.

Another question would be, that if i want to add shorts or pants and shoes, i wouldnt have to model a whole body would i? Just asking if modeling everything from a box if its better than separating the head for animation purposes. thats all…i would definately order more of your dvds if u come up with new methods of modeling in poly. I am not a fan of nurbs anymore because poly these days are much better with texturing and saves lots of time on me especially with the help of zbrush now.

Thanks a lot for the great work that you do…hope to have more from u.

Cheers and have a happy merry xmas and a great holiday.

#116

I think you mix me up with Tareq again. I havn’t released my DVD yet. It’ll be ready to release in probably in February 2005. I will also really try to make it so that very little questions remain other than: When’s the next one coming out…:applause:

Haha…ehh…I’m just kidding, but yeah, I’m planning to make a whole series that includes far more than just modeling!

I havn’t seen Tareq’s DVD, yet, but I bet it’s good…you should email him your questions…I think you find him somewhere in the thread! :shrug:

Merry Christmas to everyone!:slight_smile:

#117

Real interesting info and art.Thanks for both.:buttrock:

#118

Man…That is totally Mind Blowing…Need to start saving my money it seems…340 Poly’s with a displacement Map…Awesome work

#119

Bloody awesome!! Don’t know diddly squat about polygons or Zbrush… but I gotta say your work’s fantastic!! :thumbsup:

#120

WOW great idea.

#121

ok, this is my first post on cg talk. I usually just poke around and see what folks are up to. I’m a blender fan but love to look around to see what kinds of results other folks are getting with other apps. When I first came across this I was blown away. I still am really. It’s the first time in a long time that I have seen something that makes me reconsider how I am currently approaching things.

Anyway, here are my crits…

  1. in the middle head there is a wierd highlight on the right side of the nose. It makes it look like something is hanging from the nose or that the nose is somehow deformed. Comparing it to the other two heads it doesn’t look like that ragged edge is really there and because it catches my eye I thought I would mention it.

  2. on the head on the right there is a very dark shadow with a hard outline under his right jaw (his right not the viewers). It gets a little jagged and unnatural looking right up to the chin. Also his nose looks to be full of something that is taking away from the illusion of depth for me. Again looking at the other two versions it doesn’t appear to be intentional and again caught my eye.

  3. The skin on the top of the head appears to need more detail. It only stands out because the rest of the skin has such amazing amounts of detail.

  4. holy cow man. that is some amazing work. Far better than anything I have been able to produce so please take these crits with a grain of salt. It just appears like you are pushing the edge of realizm here…and I wanted to mention these things because they were the few things that pull it back to CG for me.

Best of luck and thanks for being so generous as to share all these great details.

#122

This is unbelievable. Can I ever reach this level of rendering?:sad:

#123

I like human anatomy , so I love it .
this is a nice job
good luck:thumbsup: