Fluid Effects vs Fume FX

[kdronez]

Damn I just cant make that smoke(cant make fluid emitter to emite it).The closest I get was with Opacity->center gradient and after that animate the texture time so I can get it moving.If some one make this only with fluids pls make tutorial after that rly want to learn how to do it :>.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4vrS2v-YEI&feature=channel_page

[cgbeige]

thanks viki164 - I’ll check that out. The incense looks good but my problem is that it all tends to fall apart up close. I do this stuff for print and it doesn’t get the detail of that real image smoke above. It feels very solid tube-ish where you can see the real smoke thins and stretches more dynamically while still staying together. It’s much the same effect as ink in water, which is why I considered doing this another way.

but I do agree that nparticles are probably better for this since I need to eventually direct them towards attractors.

[cgbeige]

this is the closest thing I can find to good quality wispy smoke in Maya:

http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/blogs_duncan/blog_detail/ink_in_water_using_maya_fluids/

but again the problem is that it lacks detail. I think I’m going to just Photoshop this one. It’s for a still image so it’s probably a lot easier. I was just hoping to do this in one sim

is there a way to make something like the ink scene but with very little breakup of the smoke? What controls that?

[Aikiman]

Damn I just cant make that smoke(cant make fluid emitter to emite it).The closest I get was with Opacity->center gradient and after that animate the texture time so I can get it moving.If some one make this only with fluids pls make tutorial after that rly want to learn how to do it :>.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4vrS2v-YEI&feature=channel_page

kdronez, you really have to use an emitter and the fluid dynamics to simulate this effect, have a look at something I came up with…
http://vimeo.com/3912682

Basically use a hi res container and emit density with a low bouyency and no turbulence but with small velocity swirl. I also placed a turbulence field up the top to break the fluid abit as it rose, this again has very low settings.

The rest is in the shader settings, use NO texturing. You want to create something similar to the flame presets in terms of opacity ramp but with a couple of spikes in the graph. The color graph I set to speed and mixed blue with a super white (8) to get some nice hot spots. Good Luck!

[kdronez]

kdronez, you really have to use an emitter and the fluid dynamics to simulate this effect, have a look at something I came up with…
http://vimeo.com/3912682

Basically use a hi res container and emit density with a low bouyency and no turbulence but with small velocity swirl. I also placed a turbulence field up the top to break the fluid abit as it rose, this again has very low settings.

The rest is in the shader settings, use NO texturing. You want to create something similar to the flame presets in terms of opacity ramp but with a couple of spikes in the graph. The color graph I set to speed and mixed blue with a super white (8) to get some nice hot spots. Good Luck!

Alright thx man I will try it and if I made smth that look avarage or good will post it here xD.Good work tho (like that flame thrower too):>.
I hope that res 30-33/30-33/30-33 is high enough for this smoke :> (my sim slowdown alot after that res xD,even with cached fluid).
Btw when I saw KidderD’s sims I tryed to make some cleaner low res sims.This is what I came up with-both are with res 30/30/30(actualy 2nd one is with 25/25/25 xD).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THLJt1120OE
Thx guys that you answer my(probably noobie for you)questions.

[Cheesestraws]

Basically use a hi res container and emit density with a low bouyency and no turbulence but with small velocity swirl. I also placed a turbulence field up the top to break the fluid abit as it rose, this again has very low settings.

One thing to note here is that the turbulence field and the turbulence on the volume axis field are different. So it is sometimes worth playing around with both when trying to get the look you want.

In maya we have a vector noise class that models an incompressible turbulent wind. Currently it is used for the turbulence on the volume axis field (the actual turbulence field uses a different method), as well as the turbulence on fluid nodes and paint effects brushes. You can see the effects of it by assigning a volume axis field to particles that have zero conserve. On the volume axis field make the awayFromCenter = 0 and then set the various turbulence attributes as desired.

It is based on a Siggraph paper by Jos Stam and Eugene Fiume:
http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/sig93.pdf

The version we have does a spline interpolation over both space and time, which results in better motions than in the original implementation of the paper, which did a linear interpolations.

I suppose it would be good to expose this via a mel command. There are several attributes for building the noise table that are not currently exposed in the current UI.

Duncan

http://www.highend3d.com/maya/list_servers/maya_general/web_interface/88489.html

[Aikiman]

One thing to note here is that the turbulence field and the turbulence on the volume axis field are different. So it is sometimes worth playing around with both when trying to get the look you want.

cool thanks Cheesestraws, I didnt know the 2 used different math. Looks like the paper on it requires a cup of coffee and a spare half an hour. ;o]

@ kdronez, your resolution is a little on the low end to be honest but if thats all your machine can handle then by all means stay at that res. (i know my machine at home is just like yours). As for your fire sims, they are nice for a flame burning a match, if you want something a little more fierce, pump up the temperature turbulence to 5 for example and increase the simulation scale rate to 2, try that.

[tokanohanna]

Made an attempt to create wispy smoke. Used similar settings to Jeremy. No turbulence field. Dissipation needed to be over one to get the lifespan of wispy smoke.
Container was 200x200x200. Prolly better off using particles. Starcraft 2 trailer (marine soldier) had great wispy smoke in several shots. Looked like fluids though.

http://www.vimeo.com/3934264

ok - here’s my problem. I can’t seem to get volumetric wispy smoke with Maya (2D is easy but I need volumetric light). It all looks puffy. Is there some way of getting FumeFX’s wispy 3D smoke?

not sure what the problem is but I’ve never had a problem. make sure they are in:

/Users/YOU/Library/Preferences/Autodesk/maya/2009/prefs/scripts

one nice thing about Maya’s fluids vs Houdini’s:

16 threads on a Xeon Nehalem Mac Pro saturated. I gave up trying to use Houdini for print-res smoke because it barely does 2 threads. Soooooooooooooooooo slow.

[Aikiman]

Made an attempt to create wispy smoke. Used similar settings to Jeremy. No turbulence field. Dissipation needed to be over one to get the lifespan of wispy smoke.
Container was 200x200x200. Prolly better off using particles. Starcraft 2 trailer (marine soldier) had great wispy smoke in several shots. Looked like fluids though.

http://www.vimeo.com/3934264

Man I wish I could go that high a rez! Hey tok you gave me an idea for the next challenge…smoke rings! ;+]

[tokanohanna]

Smoke rings… What you have in mind?

Man I wish I could go that high a rez! Hey tok you gave me an idea for the next challenge…smoke rings! ;+]

[Aikiman]

Smoke rings… What you have in mind?

Say somebody smoking a cigar and blows a smoke ring, fairly easy to do with particles, Im guessing virtually impossible to do with fluids unless one combines both fluids and particles together maybe?

[kdronez]

I cant get good sim so I will just post some pics.I like the shape tho xD(I try with turbolence and turbolence field,but I didnt like the shape after that,I mean when I try with emitter :> ).I’m trying with emission from particles and some turbolence (fluid turbolence) now.If I get good result will post it :>.
http://img4.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=asdddy.jpg
Edit: fluid res 30/30/30

[azshall]

Say somebody smoking a cigar and blows a smoke ring, fairly easy to do with particles, Im guessing virtually impossible to do with fluids unless one combines both fluids and particles together maybe?

You could try a Torus Volume Emitter with the help of a Volume Axis field to help push it out in the ring shape… Do like, burst puffs so its not a constant stream…

[Aikiman]

You could try a Torus Volume Emitter with the help of a Volume Axis field to help push it out in the ring shape… Do like, burst puffs so its not a constant stream…

What are you waiting for? ;=] im not sure this would creating the rolling smoke like a smoke ring does though.
BTW, does the smoke in a smoke ring roll inwards going forward or outwards? I cant tell you cause I dont smoke. :=P

[azshall]

What are you waiting for? ;=] im not sure this would creating the rolling smoke like a smoke ring does though.
BTW, does the smoke in a smoke ring roll inwards going forward or outwards? I cant tell you cause I dont smoke. :=P

Hahahah, well … I am at work and would probably get my lights punched out if I stopped doing what they WANT me to do and do what I WANT to do

I don’t smoke either

[darktding]

problem is all fluid sims these days look like jelly fish flying up in the air…
initially I was impressed at the result of maya’s or fumefx fluid simulators, but these days they all look gimmicky and don’t actually look like the real effect.
I am still looking for a nice elegant artistic method of doing smoke/explosions… and haven’t seen any good setups yet; the cop out is to slap a fluidbox and upres the shit out off it and simulate; and one ends up with jelly fish flying in the air…
maybe im just jaded and bored with this technique…

[Aikiman]

Hahahah, well … I am at work and would probably get my lights punched out if I stopped doing what they WANT me to do and do what I WANT to do
I don’t smoke either

Ok I may give it a go, I have an idea that MAY work but i wouldnt hold your breath.

problem is all fluid sims these days look like jelly fish flying up in the air…
initially I was impressed at the result of maya’s or fumefx fluid simulators, but these days they all look gimmicky and don’t actually look like the real effect.
I am still looking for a nice elegant artistic method of doing smoke/explosions… and haven’t seen any good setups yet; the cop out is to slap a fluidbox and upres the shit out off it and simulate; and one ends up with jelly fish flying in the air…
maybe im just jaded and bored with this technique…

Do you think its the Navier stokes solver itself or the lack of skill by people who use it? You can only do what you can with the tools that are out there.

[darktding]

Do you think its the Navier stokes solver itself or the lack of skill by people who use it? You can only do what you can with the tools that are out there.

No I am not questioning the skill of artists, however I feel the look and the animation of fluid looking effects have become very consistent and lacks the “bend” of the artists touch.
All I am saying is the simulator has been used so many times in various effects in movies, that even my mom can recognize a fluid simulation ( not really I am just exaggerating :P) .
It is almost like looking at sub surface scattering for the very first time, and now these days it is cliched to over use it.
Personally I am trying to break away from using the fluid simulator; yes it is an awesome little tool, but there has got to be other ways to do fire, smoke, explosions with the complete artistic control.
End of the day, effects is all about entertaining the audience… it don’t matter what you use, but I am here in a dynamic forum

edit:
yes artists ARE limited by the programming knowledge and the artistic eye. But that shouldn’t mean imagination and thinking out off the box must shut off. If people have ideas and other ways to imagine how one could pull it off and even draw it on paper, coming up with a way to implement in a 3d package isn’t far off…

[Aikiman]

No I am not questioning the skill of artists, however I feel the look and the animation of fluid looking effects have become very consistent and lacks the “bend” of the artists touch.
All I am saying is the simulator has been used so many times in various effects in movies, that even my mom can recognize a fluid simulation ( not really I am just exaggerating :P) .
It is almost like looking at sub surface scattering for the very first time, and now these days it is cliched to over use it.
Personally I am trying to break away from using the fluid simulator; yes it is an awesome little tool, but there has got to be other ways to do fire, smoke, explosions with the complete artistic control.
End of the day, effects is all about entertaining the audience… it don’t matter what you use, but I am here in a dynamic forum

edit:
yes artists ARE limited by the programming knowledge and the artistic eye. But that shouldn’t mean imagination and thinking out off the box must shut off. If people have ideas and other ways to imagine how one could pull it off and even draw it on paper, coming up with a way to implement in a 3d package isn’t far off…

Okay so you are bored with fluids, people here are not as good as you are and want to learn them, I guess thats why this thread exists.

BTW your demo reel has always inspired me espeically the fluids

So do you think you could nail a smoke ring using fluids or is that just not inspiring enough for you?

[AFisette]

Hey guys,

I just started learning Maya this week and im working on a particle setup but i have a problem shading the particles with fluids. I checked the help menu and this is what it gave me:

http://download.autodesk.com/us/maya/2009help/index.html?url=Texturing_and_shading_fluids_Shade_particles_using_the_fluid_shape_shader.htm,topicNumber=d0e436338

Can anyone guide me step by step through the process? I tried in a fresh scene to create a particle emitter, set their render type to clouds (s/w), right clicked on the particles and assigned a fluid material and it showed nothing on the render.

BTW I’m using Maya Unlimited 2009 x64.

Also, is there any way to emit fluids from particles or instanced particles?

Thanks,

Anthony.