This thread is hilarious. The constant insistance that Win7 is somehow massively flawed is quite laughable. It’s quite bluntly a great OS, and rock solid.
I think a great many people simply have no idea how to keep their machines running properly and malware free.(Using common sense is the best plan of action).
Google: “photoshop crash” “Windows” 12,500 results
Google: “photoshop crash” “OS X” 6,680 results
Google: “photoshop crash” PC 10,500 results
Google: “photoshop crash” MAC 12,400 results
:rolleyes:
What does this statistic mean?
These numbers do not prove anything other than search results on google.
This thread is funny. Not because it’s another Mac vs. PC thread, but because obviously some of the posters here have absolutely no clue as to who they are talking to.
leigh van der byl is not only a CGS staff member, she’s also worked in her capacity as a texture artist on many major films, including “King Kong” (2005), “Sin City” (2005), “Snakes on a Plane” (2006) “Underdog” (2007), “Australia”(2008), “G.I. Joe: Rise of the Cobra” (2009) and “The Wolfman”, “Robin Hood”, “Clash of the Titans” & “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows” (all 2010).
Her past experience also includes authoring a book about Lightwave 3D texturing, and besides having vast experience with Lightwave, her skill set includes Maya, Renderman, Zbrush, XSI, Bodypaint and she’s a Photoshop Expert.
In short, leigh van der byl knows, and if she says Windows “is shit”, you can believe it.
Personally, I agree with her, not only based on my personal experiences and in fact, completely throwing that out of the discussion – what other conclusion can an intelligent mind draw, when, on one hand Microsoft offers 3 different versions of Win7 (based on performance and stability) and yet Mac only offers ONE version that works?
Think about that for a moment…why offer three different versions based on performance and stability? To get people to spend more money obviously, but in order for them to see the advantage in buying the higher end versions, you’d have to sacrifice something in the lower end versions, which means there are KNOWN bugs in the lower end versions.
That’s a shitty way to do business, and it gives insight into the mentality of Microsoft, whereas conversely, Apple clearly wants you to be happy with their sole OS and they do everything they can to make sure the performance is top-notch - without spending more money on upgraded versions.
Jettatore, I don’t believe most of what you wrote, particularly your “$4500 Refurbished Mac Story” (which sounds totally ridiculous - LMAO) and your story about the “Mac Lab where none of those computers worked properly” - both of these stories are so over-the-top, that I can’t even comment, but I always hear the same thing from Windoze people, which is - “I build my own Windows computers and they are outstanding and you need a computer that is built with the Hardware and Drivers configured correctly” and yet i’ve never seen one of these so-called “perfect Windows machines”. I have friends with the same mentality as you, but every time I am available to check them out, they are either doing something with their computer that prevents it, or they just don’t have the time to show me. But I have NEVER seen, first hand, a Windows computer that impressed me.
I am keeping an open mind to the possibility, however I suspect that guys like you that build their own computers, often get emotionally attached to it, and as a result would NEVER admit that, in fact, it’s just another Windows machine with very negligible improvements. Either that, or you are one of the Pacific Northwest residents that seem hell bent on Microsoft and Bill Gates tribalism. (I see these types all the time)
Doesn’t matter though, I respect leigh’s opinion far more than yours, and though I do not know your background, presumably it’s not nearly as vast or impressive as hers.
leigh said Windoze is shit. (btw leigh, thanks for saying that! hilarious!)
It is shit.
More and more people are switching to Macs everyday, and the thing is - hardly any of them switch back based on performance issues.
For the record, since you basically called me a complete liar, one of my close friends is a photographer for Playboy magazine. He does all of his Photoshop work on a PC, that I built for him.
There’s a big difference between not believing what someone says, and calling them a liar.
Calling you a “liar” would be an inflammatory insult, which I have no intention of doing.
However I do have a right to not believe what you say, (considering the outlandish claims you made) and to state that in my response, provided of course that I am addressing a healthy adult capable of handling opposing views.
On second consideration regarding my previous assumptions of the latter…I think I’ll stop now.
But you shouldn’t take these things so seriously. Whatever some people believe, is what they believe because they want to believe it, and many times, whether it’s true or not. That’s a common trait many people have. If that is the case with you, and it makes you happy, then more power to you.
Personally I believe we are “comparing Apple’s to Lemons” here, but that’s just me.
Say “Hi” to your porno friend for me.
It’s a tool. Who doesn’t know that there are people who get the work done with both, people with different needs and setups? Unfortunately there are sometimes problems with these tools and if something doesn’t work for you, why not change it? If I don’t remember wrong at least for Adobe there was possibility to change plattform once for free.
Why is this still running? First mac vs pc thread here ever? Do we get something new out of this?
So, cause leigh is a great artist, her words are a dogma?
She has made her experiences, thats all.
You can have solid systems or stability issues with both, Windows or Mac. In my opinion the Windows route is the little bit more risky one and you have to be ready to spend some time, to get your system stable. In exchange you save some money.
With all due respect to Leigh, even with her enormous experience, we are still allowed to disagree. Anyway, there appear to be several people here with lots of experience, far more than me and therefore I would be unable to distinguish who has the authority.
If Leigh did say Windows “is shit” (did she?) then I’d politely disagree. Windows 7 is working fine for me. Perhaps if I tried a Mac then I might find that its OS is better. It still doesn’t mean Windows is shit, just not as good as.
In regard to leigh’s experiences, no her words are not “dogma”, but along with everything else she has done, she IS an Adobe beta tester and as such “puts Photoshop through it’s paces” (as she said) on both platforms. If you chose to ignore the significance of that, then you are just burying your head in the sand and believing what you want to believe.
Personally, my experiences with Windows and digital art programs has been plagued by system freezes, and too many error messages. The former rarely existing in my Mac work, and the latter NOT AT ALL.
But I don’t have time to hold a computer’s hand throughout the creative process. I’m not on a computer to fiddle with a computer, I am there to do a job and the computer is a tool that I expect to work well for me to get the job done. I expect it to do it’s job much the same way anyone would expect their new car to run. To give an analogy, who would put up with a new car that ran for a few blocks, then stalled, then had to be started up again, then runs a few more blocks, then stalls again?
And that’s exactly what I get from Windows, and it’s what I see happening to other Windows users that claim the software is stable. In fact, one of my best friends used to be my roommate, and was a totally overzealous Windows fanatic. He used to build his own machines too. I used to tease him every time I was around to see his computer crash…it got to the point where it wasn’t funny, it was just pathetic and the situation led to a moment of awkward silence between us. I thought he could handle a little harmless competitive ribbing, but I was wrong…his ego, because he put so much into his computer, specing it out and then building it himself, was completely filled and did not allow for a sense of humor. It crushed him every time that computer crashed or he got an error message that refused to save his changes. It was like rubbing his nose in shit, so I backed off…meanwhile wailing away on my Mac, doing far more computational intensive tasks than he was doing (digital art and video editing) and with few or no problems, which - and get this - he ultimately resented me for, even though I never said “Oh look how great my Mac works” or anything like that. He saw me work with it, and KNEW how well it worked. We are still very close friends to this day, however there is still a rivalry…
And “for the record” the guy holds an Engineering Degree from Michigan State, and is a Fiber Optic Engineer.
But whatever…
I used to ignore obvious quality engineering, and thought that for some “cosmic” reason, some platforms just work better for some people than others, just as a Ford works better than a Dodge for some people…as though some people are just continuously lucky with one or the other, and THAT is why they swear by their choice. I don’t believe that anymore. It’s just that people are more forgiving if they actually like something, and will overlook the incidents to the point of them going uncounted. Some people are vain like that. Their ego will not allow them to admit it. But if your feet are on the ground, you know quality is quality, and that’s all there is to it. It does make a difference, and unfortunately that means spending more money to get it.
Some folks (like my roommate) think they can subvert that fact, save the extra money, build their own computer and expect top-notch performance, however it is still the OS that is the core of the machine.
So in trying to save the extra money, they actually don’t see any real reward in the end.
Every new version of Windows promises to be better than the last, however that never seems to happen, and a few times it has gone into the opposing realm. (Windows ME, Vista) Are you guys ignoring the track record of Windows here? Even for the simplest of tasks. Have you never called a customer service dept., or been to a store/office/agency where the scenario is “Oh, hang on, my computer is down/locked-up…” And then you go “Windows?” and they go “Yep”. If Windows were an OS that lived up to what you are claiming, then these issues/opinions could not possibly exist.
But they do exist. And in huge amounts.
Will Microsoft EVER write a version that would work so well that you never see the need to upgrade? No. No they won’t, because they want you to upgrade frequently. If they made a version that was rock solid, you wouldn’t so quickly upgrade to the next new version and they would lose money. That is the Microsoft approach to business, and THAT is why there are many people like me giving Microsoft bad reviews, but remember - they brought this on themselves.
Otherwise this conversation would never take place. Believe me - I take no pleasure in this. I don’t prefer to drag Windows through the mud, or raise hairs on the necks of Windows users by saying this stuff. But what you are NOT going to get form me, is bullshit. I am going to state the truth as I see it. And the truth is, it would be great if I could save money, buy/build a Windows machine and still achieve the same level of performance, but as it stands right now, it’s not possible.
I use a Mac because their OS is stable, and there are very few viruses written for it so the performance will remain the same. Yes I have to pay a little extra, but my computers last a long time, (I don’t throw out my Macs after 3 years, like I used to with my Windows machines, in fact the one I am using right now is 6 years old and still works as well as it did when it was new) and they have a higher resale value as well. So you tell me who really saved money and headaches?
It’s just plain and simple common sense.
Until you can re-write the Windows operating system, I am going to reserve my opinion that Windows is a purposely substandard OS, marketed mainly to people whom are first and foremost - trying to save money, unless someone - anyone - can prove me wrong.
Bottom line: In today’s economy we should all be grateful for what we have, and find a way to be happy with it. If it’s Windows or OSX that makes you happy, then so be it.
A lengthy reply I know, but that’s about all I have to say, and all I need to say, I think.
So in light of that, thanks for your time and consideration.
larry
^ whoa. :surprised
I have an idea, kind of flowchart:
my computer works -> go do some great stuff
my computer doesn’t work -> post about specific issues and ask for help
-> If it helps, back to number 1.
-> If doesn’t and nothing seems to work and totally tired of fighting, consider changing platform.
-> If changing platform helped, go back to number 1.
-> If it didn’t, maybe it is just unfortunate changes in solar wind or your aura of negative cosmic energy, which messes up computers quantum level electromagnetic fields and makes every computer near you crash, esspecially when you try to make something important with em. You may try to go back number 2, but probably you just have to live with it. 
Sighhhhh…yawn…
“I’m surprised at you Pete, the personal rancor reflected in that remark, I don’t care to dignify with a response, but I would like to address your attitude of hopeless negativism…consider the goddamn lilies of the field, or hell, take a look at Delmar here as your paradigm of hope…Now you may call it an unreasoning optimism - you may call it obtuse - but the fact is, we got but four days…”
Seriously though, this is the best you can do?
Considering what you said earlier -
Haha! Whatever, carry on…
I’ve used PC’s my whole life until January when I had to get a MacBook Pro for school.
At home I ran:
Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit
AMD Phenom 9650 Quad Core
Asus (can’t remember which lol)
OCZ 1066MHZ DDR2 4GB Ram (can’t remember model name exactly)
XFX nVidia 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition 512MB GFX Card
Samsung 2232GW 22" LCD and Samsung T220HD dual monitor setup
At work I ran:
Windows Vista 64 Bit Ultimate
Intel i7 920 Quad Core
ASUS P755D? I think
12GB Ram DDR3 1066MHz
Sapphire ATi Radeon 4890HD 1GB GFX Card
Samsung T220 and Samsung 2232BW Dual Monitor combo
On both these machines I ran Adobe CS4 Master Collection. Even with i7, I couldn’t believe how fast it was till I had a certain amount of images open.
At home, I understood with the machine I had it wouldn’t be as good as it was at work but it was still great for what I needed.
Then I got my MacBook Pro. I’m gonna start by telling you right now, I HATED Macs. I thought they looked nice but always saw them as more of an overpriced luxury. None of the ones I’ve used ever worked properly and they were all SO SLOW.
Then I got the late 2009 MacBook Pro 15":
2.8GHZ Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB DDR3 1066MHz
nVidia 9400M and 9600M gfx
15.4 LED Backlit Display
(at home, clamshell mode using CinemaView 24" LCD HD Display)
Running Adobe CS4 on this thing is a freaking dream, especially in clamshell. My Wacom tablet runs so smooth, just overall everything is much nicer. Plus the whole MS Journal thing pissed me off especially when it came to tablet using and it was a pain to turn off.
I’m honestly shocked at how well Adobe runs on my Mac compared to the PC’s I’ve used.
I ended up selling my PC from home and went all Mac. I haven’t had any problems stability wise. I haven’t had it crash but I have the Photoshop at work crashing quite frequently.
If you want more power from your Mac (don’t know how much you want if you’re considering a Mac Pro) and of course depending on your budget, why not go for the 27" iMac i5 or wait for the i5 / i7 MacBook Pro refresh coming soon.
Having used PS for PC since 5.0, it was all I knew. In January, CS4 on Mac blew me away completely. I went back to using the PC at work and it felt way too clunky.
Windows 7 is nice though!
I don’t want to change your opinion. Actually I agree with you largely, I just think your argumentation referred to leigh doesn’t work. Just cause she is a great artist, her experiences aren’t more worth then others.
IRT: jbyun04
Glad to hear your happy. But just so you know, you could have fixed the brush responsiveness with the Wacom on the computer you sold. I bet CS3 ran just fine on that machine, and the issue was only with Adobe CS4, not with Windows (that problem shows up on some Macs as well), and again, that can be fixed.
You said you now find your machine at work to be clunky compared to your much, much, much less powerful laptop, could you explain what you mean by this as it’s something that can probably be addressed if your interested?
Seriously though, this is the best you can do?
Considering what you said earlier -
Quote:
Originally Posted by halen
Why is this still running? First mac vs pc thread here ever? Do we get something new out of this?
- I would have expected more from you.
My apologies for not meeting your expectations. :shrug: Seriously, I haven’t mutch gluea what are you talking about. Did you expect me not to post anything to this thread since usually I find these mac vs. pc threads just waste of time? I still think so, but sometimes these are somewhat amusing, so I may drop a line or two and imho people should use more time doing something with any system they happen to like. But you are right - answering this thread is not the best I can do, so I’ll try to find something more usefull to do.
edit: and just to avoid being complitely off topic: I’ve worked with both systems and they usually do fine.
Her experiences are certainly not worth more than others, I agree completely. I’m just saying that regardless of her level of talent and the hi-profile clients she has worked for/with, the girl has gained a lot of experience, so her views should be taken very seriously. In no way did I mean to suggest that her work is better than anyone else’s’. It was purely in reference to the amount of experience she has as a digital artist well-versed on both platforms, and that this experience can be confirmed.
As you know, there are 17 year olds that have been working digitally for less than 6 months and that do incredible work but that doesn’t mean that they have significant experience with even one platform or the other. As we all know, it just takes longer than that to form an educated opinion.
Many people have more experience with Windows than Macs, and I have seen in the past where a Windows user will dog a Mac - but curiously they’ve never honestly spent ANY time on a Mac…
I don’t understand that, but clearly even though they have no experience on a Mac, they hate them…I don’t know if it’s the Mac Tv commercials that set them off?..whatever. (The classic thing I hear/read is “Mac’s are gay”) :rolleyes:
In short, lots of people can chime in, but other than their testimonials, we have no way of knowing if what they are saying is actually true, so we tend to take it with a grain of salt. (as we do for most things we read on the internet)
But that is not the case with leigh, so rather than bring up all this stuff, it was just easier to say “leigh knows her stuff”.
Your work (I checked out your portfolio) is outstanding by the way.
Originally I thought; To make a joke out of this discussion, is rude and disrespectful to everyone that has participated in this thread constructively. Though some find this topic a “waste of time”, others clearly don’t, so to chime in with condescending jokes and nothing worthy of serious consideration, is insulting to all the posters, plus it implies that you think you are smarter than all of us here, simply because we chose to “waste our time” with it.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with a little humor, but a poster should also add something worthy of consideration here, and you’ve done that in this post (“I’ve worked with both systems and they usually do fine”) so thanks for that.
As far as the first part of my previous reply to you, I was quoting a few lines of the movie “Oh Brother Where Art Thou”…
Have you ever been to a movie that you were trying to watch, and someone in the audience thought it was stupid, and they insisted on making comments about how stupid it is, loudly enough that all in the audience could hear them? Regardless of how “stupid” something is to one person, it’s just rude to ruin it for everyone else that wants to participate.
And that’s what I thought you were doing here before.
But this thread is neither pointless or stupid.
Regardless of what ANYONE says - these “Mac vs. PC” threads truly are worthwhile in constructive form. The fact is, many of them have influenced someone’s buying decision, however usually - we just don’t see the result. People that don’t believe that are just being naive.
What IS pointless, are the insults and jokes that are intended just to piss people off.
It’s hard enough to discuss this as it is, considering how easy it is for people to become angered to the point of insults, so the best approach is to try to discuss the topic as focused as possible, and without white noise.
I hope you can understand where I am coming from.
^oh man. :sad: Here I am again.
Didn’t cross my mind, that I could be understood like that. :surprised Since we are quoting, my favorite from the 5th element: “I only speak two languages, English and bad English”… So my apologies to anyone who constructively took part to this thread and really felt that I’m trying to be superior (???) and I’m insulting them by joking, ruining their fun and intentionally pissing them of.
I’m propably naive then, but at least I hope, that people are smarter than making their buying decicions by something else than mac vs pc -threads. There actually has been some info in this thread (thanks for those constructive posters), but then we also have had already usual comments like “xx is a shit, no its not, xx doesn’t work ever, yes it does always” and then argued about authority of the authors. There is a reason why software fights are not allowed at general discussion.
My opinnions about the subject are actually quite close to those “jokes” I posted earlier. Formal explanation of those jokes would be something like this:
Needs of the people, softwares they use, style of usage, amount of other usage and experiences vary so mutch that imho relevance of information one gets from these threads is not very good.
In my experience, both operating systems can be successfully used for working, neither one is perfect (and will have plenty of updates to come) and one doens’t need to fix it if it ain’t broke. If, how ever one is having problems, then it is usually more usefull to ask solutions to those specific problems - which are usually easier to solve (like that brush slugginess). And if nothing helps, then it might actually be smart to consider trying something else (which might help - or not).
Both of the companies are also trying to maximize their profit, so I don’t believe neither of them is an angel. Arguing about universal betterness of operating systems is indeed imho quite useless because of all those variables mentioned, but by all means feel free to do so, since it is usually raising some discussion and we might also hear something usefull every now and then.
And no - I’m still not trying to piss anyone off, instead I’m actually trying to avoid arguing, because this is quite irrelevant and unnecessary fluff considering subject of the thread. To add some relevance I’ll mention that currently I’m mostly using self build pc with cs4 master collection, something of that in daily use, mostly photoshop, indesing, illustrator, after effects. Photoshop has crashed maybe once, indesign twice since release of cs4. Computer is also used for childrens and my gaming other “household use”. And I’ve been using different platforms since times when PC could show one color, Apple looked birdhouse and Amiga was better than either of them.