Scott Monsma is entered in the “Eon Challenge” update: View Challenge Page
Hey Scott, good luck with the challenge. There’s still 45 days left.
Thanks Jedi, you’re right, I must be crazy! oh well…
Thanks, I’m glad you like the truck. I originally had plans to have the driver-side door open for the final animation. I was going to have Farley coming out of the vehicle, but as I progressed with the modeling on the truck, I figured that I probably won’t have enough time to do that. It would require me to add more detail to the interior side of the open door. Also, it would mean that I would have to add another character to my to-do list. :argh: I guess I’ll have to see how it goes with the uv mapping and texturing. Not worried about the uv mapping, moreso on the texturing as I’m not that experienced with painting textures.
oops, still figuring out the method of posting the progress images!
It looks like you’ve done your homework and actually read the book! I like the sketch. It’s very similar to the picture I had in my mind of the scene in which Patricia first encounters the 7th chamber singularity. Best of luck to you in this contest.
I re-read the description of how Patricia gets to the Singularity- a ladder in a cylindrical cage, 50 m high and then axial for ~ 5 m.
Nice. It will be interesting to see where you take this further.
Very nice. Out of curiosity, how do you plan to shade the singularity? The book describes a kind of complicated reflection effect…
What I’m planning would be like a reflection but rotated 90 degrees- but it would take a close in rendering to make it discernible. Right now it is just a plain reflective texture… I also want to model the end into a sort of complicated knot surface, closer to what was described. Thanks for the comments!
I’ve been struggling with what the end of singularity should look like. It is described as a sort of “malevolent knot”. The singularity converts a force hitting it into a force sliding along its length, like a 90 degree reflection… I think that photons should be similarly affected, so it is not a standard reflective surface. I’ve used an anisotropic material for this render, just playing around.
Trying to get the rough scored rock texture of the borehole, which is supposed to be in an unfinished state between the 6th and 7th chambers. Also added a knot surface at end of singularity but this is not the best angle…
Almost two months ago now, when I had decided I would attempt to take part in the competition, I had browsed through the entries to see “Watz Hapn’n”.
And I had come across this very thread, and particularly your post#12.
My direct impression was… “Yeah this guy literally nailed it!”
I sort of had visualised a tube with a series of stretches within its own reflective mass, sort of resembling the effects they tried directly on the film back in the late 70’s early 80’s when digital was far too primitive to take part (possibly [color=white]Tron would be a serious exception)
As a result; that was actually a visualisation of what I had personally pictured as I read it.[/color]
Now, after all this time I had expected a whole different scene than the knot on post#13.
(Unlucky number :eek: )
I am SURE there must be a reason for you to go for it, but I honestly can’t find it in neither theoretical Physics notes (an nder-intermediate skim), nor in the book itself.
[color=lemonchiffon]If you ask my humble opinion, I would suggest for you to apply a much denser texture map and (to definitely use Polygons for this) to really mess up the UV layout to get some impossible twists within. Even for you to firstly bake the reflections if necessary.[/color]
That said… Due to its nature; I think the colour would more run to the spectrum of yellow to blue to ultra-violet. sort of like cold Gold-Chrome… (The yellow being tinted only in it’s reflected colours only as streaks… where the wavelength knots low enough to be produced… sort of the same reason copper bands were visible further along the way)
[color=lemonchiffon]Hoping I have not totally annoyed you still, I think I have a little to say about the rock texture…
As I get it, the Stone/Potato/Whale is actually based on Juno, from the Asteroid Belt… which is an S-Type asteroid: mainly composed of Iron and Magnesium-Silicates.
So it would take some serious amount of engineering to cut through that thing as it is.[/color]
In the book there is a description of the undecorated hallway on [color=white]Laniers way to meet Patricia shall you remember;
From Pages 31-32;
The elevator entrance, a perfect semicircular arch, had been blasted out of asteroid material, as had all the tunnels, serviceways and bore holes of the Stone, by a fusion torch of extremely high power and efficiency. The sides of the short hall had been polished smooth and etched with acid by the Stoners to reveal the beautiful triangular Widmanstiitten patterns, veined with rocky troilite intrusions.
Maybe the walls in your scene could also influence from that text, sort of give a better idea of what you can go for.
Possibly a series of collected photos from disrupted metal scraps or something of the line can be of use if you want a “blasted” result; or some close-up shots from metallurgy sites of the Widmanstiltten patterns if you want the polished look; may help you get to some very dramatic effects.
Also; I am not too sure on how it works still… but I think a sort of circuitry should be vacant (like that expected for the Tube-Rider) for the singularity to be able to be centred/controlled as it is… something like a magnetic field generator or something… I dont exactly know what
but it may help get across your story here.
I AM aware that I have only listed a whole series of things that only and only demand a lot of work to look anything decent
Making your job even harder was really far from my intention
But noticing that you havent posted since 11 days does get me to worry that you may be on the edge of giving up, too busy or possibly stuck and out of influence.
Your entry is of the ones that literally screams out of the book, and you have chosen (And well accomplished) one of the most difficult moments to grasp, leave alone to visualise. I think for this reason alone this entry demands attention.
Really hoping to have stepped on a few buttons to get you started and rolling again
BEST of luck Scott!:bounce:
How to respond, how to respond? First, thanks! and thanks again, you have obviously put a lot of thought into this, and I really appreciate your taking the time to give your comments.
Yes, unfortunately I am near to giving up on this entry, first because I wanted to have a Patricia figure in the scene but my figure modeling skills are almost non-existent (and Stahlberg’s Cybergirl V workshop doesn’t start until Jan 15!); with the previous deadline, I did not have enough time. Even with the extended time, I don’t think I can get the figure done in time. Perhaps I should not worry about that, and just concentrate on doing the knot as best I can.
The knot- after making the first simple spiral knot, I did look online for some surfaces and ‘singularities’- Google ‘boy surface’ and you’ll see one type. How to generate these surfaces in Cinema4D though? So I played with some of the curves and nurb sweeps and ended up with the later version, which was very hard to work with. I put an anisotropic texture on just to see something different from a plain reflective surface, I did intend to make the surface more interesting (but also that will make it harder for us to see the shape in the renders ). Your idea of converting to polys and then playing with the UV is perfect, exactly what will be needed
The rock wall- actually I think there was a description of the borehole between the 6th and 7th chamber and as I remember it is in an unfiinished form still showing the gouges of the excavation work… I’ll look in my copy of the book (different printing than yours perhaps)… so I had played with bump mapping to get the gouges and just a simple black material so far. Again, the texture was planned for ‘upgrading’!
The view I would like is toward the 7th chamber, but then the interior of the 7th chamber is nondescript desert scrub, and so it is not very interesting to texture or see rendered; so I had not yet done much in that direction.
Hm, well we do still have two weeks, right? Perhaps you have stepped on the right buttons! (oh yes, the other reason for not continuing- the total lack of comments on this thread, and so many other people doing really nice work, except that a lot of them have no relation to the story/book itself!).
Anyway, I will see what I can do in the next couple of weeks, even if it doesn’t get ‘finished’ enough for the full res entry!
thanks again, you are very inspiring!
(and if I have a business trip to my companies San Diego location, I’ll let you know, perhaps someday we will meet!)
I'd hate to see you give up, for the very reason you mention above: there are many images being produced for this contest which, although gorgeous, have nothing whatsoever to do with Eon. Your previs matched my picture of the end of the singularity very well, and I think you were one of the few who bothered to read the book and who payed close attention while doing so. I also really liked what you were doing with anisotropic reflections. I'd strongly encourage you to keep plugging away at your entry. Even if you don't put any human figures in it, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Remember that the idea here is that we are to suppose that the book is to be made into a movie. This being the case, I would expect the people to be played by actors, and only the scenery to be computer generated. I can't speak for Mr. Bear, but my guess would be that he will be more impressed by someone who faithfully depicts the settings from his story than by someone who spends hours perfecting subsurface-scattered skin. I hope you can keep going, and if you do, I look forward to seeing what you produce next. Best of luck to you.
Wow YOUR post sure made my day! (Helped me feel very useful )
I am more than glad if what I wrote gave you ANY reason to go on with it
As I stated in my post
I had great pleasure and motivation from a single render from you
I am just a simple One person
but I hope that for even one persons appreciation, you will give it a go!
[color=lemonchiffon]As for the Boy-Surface
It should be sort of a variation of the Mobius kettle, where the nozzle of the kettle would stretch into tits base, forming an endless path loop to flow along it
The major difference being that it has three entrances rather than one.
Something I personally find to be aesthetically more attractive than the kettle, but none the less it still is just a knot in an almost spherical parameterization.
Maybe we are not talking about the exact same Boys Surface, I am a Nerd, but no expert on the matter.
None the less
IF we are talking about the same knot, I guess you may want to give the three caves to the end, and stretch the opposing chamber to eternity
Wikipedia, and MathWorrld have both given pretty documented calculations of the surface
it should be not as difficult as it was 50 years ago to model it out. I CAN always try to help out if you shall need it.
But damn he DOES have a point there actually
And I would actually have to double most of the post above
(I guess I had also better start presenting my non-actor pieces of the scene :sad: )
To compare to my other pieces I model out… I am pretty developed in organic modelling, particularly humans or biped characters
So on that subject also, you can always knock on my door.
Ps:This year I am not going to be able to afford going to Siggraph, or sending anyone :sad:
But maybe 2008?
oh no, I’m even more of Nerd than you! But not much of a mathemetician! I think Mobius kettle = Klein Bottle – what bothered me about that is the images look like the spout is re-entering through a hole in the side of the tube (even tho there is no physical hole). I don’t really see that as a “knot” either- that is why I was trying other shapes beside the first render that you liked so much.
As for a figure, well I do have one started and I can post an image of it- I suppose since she’s wearing a vacuum suit, I can just expand the arms, legs and torso and make them wrinkly! Well, that’s for if I have any time left; after re-reading the singularity passage again (p73-75 of my Eon/Eternity copy), I think I need more scaffolding support. Your idea of machinery to sustain the singularity in place is also worth investigating though the description in the book doesn’t mention it; that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be there! In Eternity, when they re-make the singularity, there was a lot of new construction and machinery, but that’s the sequel!
“The walls of the borehole- rough and grooved with irregular lines- faded into inky blackness.” and “She looked up… and saw a wide intrusion of dark rock in the asteroidal metal.” So I’d say, metallic texture, rough and scored with some dark basaltic type rock…
duty calls (child to put to bed) but I’ll post some more tonight!
No, no… Thats not my point…
Earlier I had asked you on why you had changed to the latest form of your knot… and you had told me that it was based on the [color=white]Boy’s Surface.[/color]
Thats why I had stated that I may be talking about ANOTHER sort of parameterisation, since I knew of the Surface well, and (really; no offence) your latest versions haven’t got too much resemblance to what the Surface was calculated to look like.
And if you take a few steps back and look at it, the piece not only fails to give an image of a knot, it also doesn’t feel like piece of the singularity.
Otherwise I really like the amount of complications you introduced… the above stated was the only reason I was so loyal to your earlier post.
I am sure you have a vision and know what you are doing, I just hope that the ending result better blends in with the singularity itself.
(Note; yes it DOES appear to have holes… but if you CAN manipulate the camera angle… In the link I gave in the above post there are lots of views that you feel a knot, but don’t see any entrances)
[color=lemonchiffon]The sustaining construction
No you are right;
In Eon, he literally puts it like as if it is a display mount in a museum or something… all open and viewable from every angle.
Since your thread, I mostly picture it similar to your construction, though a little more claustrophobic and definitely grey/gunmetal tinted to compare.[/color]
To justify what I said in the post… I especially tried to state that it may bring the message over to the viewers better by introducing a sort of sustaining framework … and also give you something to add drama/story with shall you have the need
self-motivation IS a serious need to be able to work so hard on such projects.
I think in the short run much a solution for the space suit may save the day… Hard for us to tell not knowing what she looks like at the moment.
The cool thing is that if you make one good suit, you can get away with having to model out Karen as well :)[/color]
Okay… now leaving you back to your own
I would really like to see the new updates!
This was just a Bump demanding your attention,
to make sure you are not putting this aside again :bounce:
Best of luck!