Eon (3D Scene) Entry: Berter Akyol


[color=lemonchiffon]Firstly, you really don’t have to come all the way to my thread only to thank me for a post I did on yours. It is really not necessary, in fact pretty odd to my understanding. I am not one of those that believes you have to post on others threads because they posted on yours… nor that you should post on mine, because I posted on yours.
Your shader looked fantastic… and IW as very impressed (As I had stated in your thread) But it demanded a little attention which I figured you may need to hear.[/color]
I wasted an amount of time in your thread re-reading all the posts
trying to figure out WHAT on earth you may be talking about
evidently I haven’t missed out on anything. The only reason I didn’t solve your problem was because I didn’t know HOW to. I do NOT have the answers to everything. I am sorry.[/color]
[color=lemonchiffon]That said;
I NEVER post on ANY thread without reading through the WHOLE thread.
It is a “Time consuming” habit I have, but in a manner am proud of because it only displays my respect to the thread starter.[/color]

I am not exactly offended
but it was not nice to read that I may have skipped something. I ran off to your thread to apologise for being so rude (I find it to be very rude) and not reading.
And I never should have even had to.

Wow Mike!
I was just on YOUR thread the other day
admiring your buildings :slight_smile:
and here I come to mine reading your compliments to mine

Thank you very much… I truly hope that texturing saves the day, because it really hurts to leave hem like this, but I lack the time to go any further in detail to all of them :sad:

I think I know what you mean
I also love drawing/painting

Most know me as the 3D guy
but belive it or not, I actually can paint as well.
In fact I think I am more capable in painting than I am with 3D modelling and so forth. And I relax more while painting then when modelling.

I don’t know why I personally come back to the forums here
especially the challenges… I hadn’t wanted to after the one we met. But after that I had wanted to create a perfect illustration of our child before he was born… coincidently the subject was “The Journey Begins”… So I jumped in (Once again at the LAST month :sad: )!
This time
I think I jumped in more because of Greg Bear… And I had actually wanted to create a trailer
and had I known there was going to be an extending, I may have preferred it.
Buuut as a result I didn’t have the time enough (Joined one month ago) and didn’t have a team
So I decided to go for a 3D scene where I went further into detailing my elements of the trailer.

Once again, I care none what so ever on winning or even finishing in time… I am going to try to… But I (more than ever) want to give you guys a hell of a good WIP thread
So as a result add to THE reason I love the challenge threads so much
Even long after the challenge is over, they are a great fun to browse through and learn more.

Getting back to work
(Render JUST finished! :slight_smile: )



I am back to the city again
I think I have to start putting everything together
my project fie is starting to get too big and too messy
Soo decided on creating a check-list and setting things in place.

As with painting, I started from back to front: Bringing me back to the buildings (I seem to have 246 buildings:)
but of them; possibly around 100 really good ones :sad: … And of course an endless amount of instanced blocks

Found this model in the lot; it was suppose to be the connecter piece that held the buildings hung on cables.
Stopped on it; even though it was going pretty fine. Just wasn’t sure on how much it would crowd the scene, so I left it (everything totals to a few million poly’s, never had them all in one shot to have the count)

But now I am in doubts… since a whole quarter of [color=white]Thistledown is to be seen
I guess I should start working on it.
[/color]Any comments?
(I don’t exactly mean in the lines of “Do you think the model is cool enough?”
I am more referring to “Do you guys think I should include the hanging buildings to the scene as it is?”

Well in any case I have my [color=white]Thistledown scene open in front of me again… when I am finished polishing things up, I’ll try to post the buildings render I had mentioned of earlier.[/color]



I think I have to start putting everything together
my project fie is starting to get too big and too messy
Soo decided on creating a check-list and setting things in place.

LOL’s I ran into the same problem this morning as I started working on the interior of Axis Nader. I have a half a dozen different files for the interior and had a hard time remembering what was what to had to do some heavy cleanup and reorganization.

Love the progress your making, any chance you want to get some done on mine too?



My advice instead keeping on modeling is to start to put the scene togother friend and start rendering and keeping modeling at the same time… im tring to find the way to doing test render at the same time im modeling more stuff i was thinking about 2 maya instances open at the same time now i thinking batch render cuz i neet work on the same scene if a make a copy of the scene for example im make some lightining changes and some modeling changes ill be kinda difiicult to merge al taht together … it gives a heache just thinking about at this point :sad:

As for the bulding u done great the latest looks like tube building or suppor or somethg … im curios about the chamber stuff i know the measurment but what to put on the base of it u know some building are gonna stand above the floor so im havin some thougs about it…

I really like coming by ur thread a lot and ur one of the few peoples thats interested in my stuff im just a newbie in 3d and ur help has been enormeus is that somtimes i get so frustated and probably dont explain myself well or my english any good or im to direct:twisted:

so that ill be it for now


This is a selection from the buildings I am hoping to use. I tried to pick out ones that may seem cool (51 buildings here, but over 200 in total), so you can better see them as a whole. When I had placed all of the buildings, they simply did not fit without covering each other up. But NOW as I saved for the Web… I notice I have a few doubles with very light differences :sad:

Actually I’ve been working on the city all this time, keeping this render/post aside until again I had to wait for something to process.
So the buildings HAVE improved on them since this image
But I already had this ready render in hand with a series of the buildings showing

Going to leave the “later” version of the buildings to a post with them hopefully laid-out.

Not sure on how YOU guys pictured the city
but I presumed the reason that would force such an advanced civilisation (That actually gained more geometric space AWAY from the centre
it IS a cylinder in the end of it
) to make buildings that WIDENED as they got higher would most possibly have been that they needed to save space for very wide roads/highways/etc

So I am a bit over my head in planning the city lay out. I can see that most of you are well ahead of me in that manner :sad:

[color=lemonchiffon]As for the hanging building:
Well I decided to go for it any way
I haven’t exactly figured out how I am going to do the hanging mechanism, but I had first wanted to see what I can get away with in the render.
You can see it’s quick form in the top corner.[/color]

got other things to deal with now

Til next;



Hmmmm… no offence buuut

Lets just put it this way;
I really doubt that I will ever be able to live up to the quality your thread and scene has been demanding. :slight_smile:
If there is any help I can give else wise

Oh I AM busy with the whole scene… believe me :sad:
And unfortunately I would have to do a LOT of optical illusions to maintain the concept image I had said I Wanted to create when I had started the thread :cry:

Below I am going to post the calculations I have made in preparing for the image.

[color=white]Now on HOW to put what where
I have been doing some calculations,
(This might be for the mathematically inclined to better reason maybe)[/color]

The third chambers diameter is not directly given in the book what so ever
so I am presuming that again the diameter is at 50 km as stated for the chambers in general.

Trying to give myself a specific unit system to be able to work with; I created a cylinder of [color=lemonchiffon]1/8 width to height proportions and gave it a division count of 64 along height and axis (This was my initial division when I started off
hoping to preserve a 64x64 UV Grid layout as well

Now with a scaling of [color=lemonchiffon]80, 80, 80; I got to a unit distance of 10 MaYA Units per division along height :slight_smile:
But for the divisions along the axis to match to my 10 units system, I had to firstly increase the division along the axis to 78 (Actually the ideal would be to just have it at 7.850826, but you can’t really have decimals in divisions :sad: )
And this obligated me to increase the diameter of the cylinder to 248.348673 between its symmetrical division vertices which made it to about 248.147649 units between the cross section (Because 78 divisions give you a half symmetry only and not a quarter symmetry) from it’s original 203.800192 units diameter to both sides.[/color]

THIS was a serious problem!
The camera I am using had by default a near clip plane of 0.1 units and a far clip plane of 10,000 units, which by MaYA defaults would mean 100 meters.
So presuming the chamber was [color=lemonchiffon]25km in radius, my 124.1743365 radius would roughly give me a unit measure for 200 meters per EACH division I set on the cylinder.[/color]

Sooo when I used a [color=lemonchiffon]35 mm camera lens for the shot, the borehole was something like 332 pixels in render resolution of 5314x7272… and that meant that everything else had going to be WAY too small.
Think of it
if I am comparing 124.1743365 to 25000 metres, then the MaYA units set to calculate in cm would be 2O meters per MaYA unit.[/color]

To compensate I tried again with a 15mm focal length, and got a borehole measure of about 10-20 pixels, shot from one cap to the next.
Beware; this could REALLY put you in trouble with the close ups
and MUCH more importantly, with the Near Clip Plane.
I set mine to [color=lemonchiffon]0.001 enabling me to render up to 2cm object closeness, and set the far clip plane to 1000 (It is NOT a good idea to keep the gap between the two at an extreme on the camera you are rendering with. A rule of thumb would be to add a zero to the other as you deduct from one, I think Autodesk automated it in the later versions… I don’t know)[/color]

[color=white]So now; as you can imagine (IF you followed that is)… I am in serious doubts to have a shot from the floor up, trying to capture both the characters, AND the singularity. I may do some radical changes over the weekend[/color]

I already sort of feared the impression I may have left on people
now I think I may just seem a little weirder
But this is in fact how I work :sad:
I calculate everything my mind can handle about it.

Well back to my scenes now
I am still placing people.



I like the trailer part of the challenge,would be intersting to see how you think, I’ve seen some amazing things, and I just admire that
team effort to put something together.

Anyway, this here is beautyfull modeling.Keep it up Black.


Awesome details Black.


about the third chamber lengh is 30 km i think if im not wrong so im using that for now but ill be nice make longer it will a lot with perpespective …i use a polygonal cylinder on my first settings in the options settings u get options to specifie that stuff i use 25000 for the radius and 30000 previously i change my measument to meters ok … i been reading ur stuff but i cannot give specifc options cause im rendering some stuff and maya is busy :frowning:

i got a similar problem with the camera i have to play with those settings to get a look of the tube …the surface of the tube is aprox if a not wrong 22-23 km from the surface of the chamber in all directions … i hope this info can help clear things a bit


I hope for this chart to better explain to those that need to better grasp the differences of depth for the focal length.
The cube you see here is 2mx2mx2m
The grid unit is 20 metres, the distance from the cap to the camera is 30 km.

As the focal length grows, the distortion is less, but the gap between elements narrows (Looses depth) leaving very little space to be able to place the buildings.

TOO often on this thread and others, I come across problems with “measurements” of things

From the book I have had noted down a dear few of them to my personal needs.
So posting them here in case anyone would have use.
(They are from my personal notes, so I can’t state pages, and they MAY seem a bit unorganised/misspelled… my apologies pre-hand)
[color=white]Measurements for you to keep in mind;[/color]
Ninety-one kilometers in diameter at its widest, two hundred ninety-two kilometers long. Rock and nickel and iron and not nearly as simple as that.
Polar Crater: no more than a kilometer deep and three or four kilometers wide.[/color]

100 meter wide and 5km above the atmosphere.[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]First Chamber;
fifty kilometres in diameter and thirty across the floor.
The wall between the first chamber cap and space was only a few kilometres thick in places.[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]Second Chamber;
The chamber is 50 km in diameter.
Beyond the ramp to the second chamber was a two-kilometre-deep shelf of parkland, irregularly spotted by copses of trees and numerous broad, flat white concrete structures, resembling thick building foundations.
a narrow lake or river about a kilometre across ran east and west completely around the chamber. A suspension bridge with tall, slender, curved towers crossed the water, set between massive concrete anchors.
The biggest structures in the chamber were about 4 km high.
The main cemetery in Alexandria is at two-six degrees and ten kilometres.[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]Third Chamber;
Atmosphere: around 20km thick
Chamber length: We have to presume 30km
Chamber diameter: We have to presume 50 km
Cables hanging buildings: Cap to cap.
Arched structures; 10 kilometres long[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]Fourth Chamber;
It has 4 distinct islands.
The hexagonal tower a bout seven kilometres from the wain of water they pass over by train is fifty meters tall and half as broad (Another tower appears only a kilometre away on a slender Pylon)[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]Sixth Chamber;
The Stairwell they are on has a 45 degree Slope
The damping machinery was originally about three square kilometres.
The northern cap (Unlike all other caps which had been virtually blank) was furrowed by a row of rectangular boxes with elliptical faces. These were spaced like stairs and were at least a kilometre wide.[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]Seventh Chamber and the way;
Atmosphere/plasma tube barrier; 22 kilometres above chamber floor (Three kilometres from the axis).
Atmosphere is along the way is20 km
Dirt in the way is about a quarter kilometre deep.
The security base is 50 km down the way.
The first artificial structures along the way were 436 kilometres away.
The next one was 872 kilometres along the way.
The wells were15 metres wide and suspended 8 meters above a bowl.
The dimples they sat in were about 500 metres in diameter and 20 metres deep
The Talsit World Gate is 7 km in diameter
Frant World Gate is 5km in diameter.[/color]

Twenty-five kilometres below the axis, the Stone’s spin produced a force of six-tenths of a g
The gymnastics pit was half a kilometre from the science team compound, midway between the compound and the barbed wire fence that marked the boundary beyond which no one could go(First Chamber)
Platform of the Ministers chambers is 20 km above the platform.
The chain link security fence is Eight-Nine kilometres long.
Olmy’s apartment was about a kilometre away from the northern cap of the third chamber.
The large ponds buried beneath the middle three chambers are shallow. The biggest pond is shaped like a doughnut and circles the fourth chamber. Ventilation ducts from these at three kilometres.
Mirsky’s dive was 15/16 kilometres, he was to release the chute at 3km from the ground
Olmy’s Flaw ship spiralled around the Plasma tube; one full turn on every 15-20 minutes
The Russian compound was 40 km from the NATO compound.[/color]

Ironically, this was one of the least typing I had to do :slight_smile: (it was all copy/paste).
Really have to get back now;




Well I had sort of been upset with not being able to detail the figures and so forth for the trailer
I guess now is my chance
so maybe next time I’ll go for a trailer.
I HAVE a team in mind for a few other productions
but the number far exceeds 4 people
and due to my mass problems of the late, we sort of drifted away :sad:
(Not to mention that save for a few, the award is not really their fee, or motivative reason)
I agree… there are some very impressive works.


I don’t exactly have a problem with the measurements… don’t worry.
In the end; think I am going for a 10 mm focal length shot
still in doubts.

Til later;



that very impressive I always follow your treath and that help me learn something .:bowdown: :wavey: and sorry about my poor english


I like the 10mm shot. Looks good in comp and you can give up some maticulous details considering the time you have in hand.


Thank you very much… I am rtying as everyone else is. IT means so much that you apreciate the efforts.

I think I agree withyou…
I did come to a conclusion in the earlier stages of the project to “deform” the tube and background to better save distortion from happening (hence using a longer focal length) and still faking the effect… but now I think I am enjoying the distortion… I hope to bring posts on it on Wednesday.

One “Last Tutorial” before the deadline (Well two answers… but one tut :slight_smile: )…
Some of you know me better than others
and that I usually have close to “NO” intention of finishing in time and submitting the image for the Jury
that I enjoy only breathing the WIP atmosphere and trying to make an image fitting to my personal/critical taste.
I decided to finish it FOR the competition this time. And like all, I am going to do everything (this time for real) to have it completed and presented
so I will have to lack behind in showing some of you how to do stuff.

Actually I enjoy sharing, and explaining things; this time I only hope you will enjoy a finished product in the cost of keeping your various messages/questions until the competition is over.
One last time, I am setting a mini tutorial for questions asked
but please make it be the last until the end of the month (Unless it is very urgent/important).

[color=lemonchiffon]The FIRST question I keep getting is (MaYA users); “How do you render the wire-frames?”
You CAN use the Hardware Render Buffer (NOT the hardware render option) or just assign the Negative UV map to the transparency value of the shader (if you don’t know how to process it through the Toon Shader).
But actually all the renders you see here are the result of a very impressive plug-in called PolyData[/color]

[color=lemonchiffon]The Next question I keep getting (Again MaYA users) is; “How do you do the windows on the buildings, and maintain the uniform grid?” (As simple as it may seem
having a practical method IS important when you are dealing with a 1000 (or so) windows
I have already answered this question to all who have asked
but since it keeps coming up
guess showing it here would be a good idea:

[li]Select the surface/face you want windows and then subdivide it to your liking (Editpolygons drop menu)[/li][li]And select the faces.[/li][li]Hit Extrude.[/li][li]From the history dialogue box, choose to not keep the faces together. And shrink the windows to your liking (You would usually have to extrude once more here).[/li]I presume most of you already do it this way up to here.
[li]Now select the row of edges
I always go to the horizontal ones.[/li]Hit “Bevel”
[li]In it’s history, select offset to be 1.0 and make sure Merge vertices is set to true.[/li][li]Select the vertical edges (Faces>selection constraints>Nsided>All and next, then grow selection. Show>isolate selected. Edges>selection constraints>Next selection)[/li][li]Hit Delete Edge from the Edit polygon menu… this should take care of the orphaned vertices as well.[/li][/ol]Note
you COULD have gone in and selected the horizontal AND vertical lines then set to bevel
but when you are dealing with so many windows… I couldn’t find an easy way to select each of them
let me know if you do though)

Hope this helps the some of you;



Sorry for keeping from updating… But I was into some serious progress… Today I am on the figures, and by the end of tonight I want to start on my renders…
These are screen-grabs from the jumpsuit’s Cage and proxy-mesh; that has been laying around all this time (Not the Russians… theirs is a pressure-suit)

Actually the idea was to make it wrap her, and then make it a little bit more shabby.
But I really liked more futuristic “diving suit” look… so I left it such til now… today I think I am going to be going in and adding some pockets so I can adjust the suit to the other figures (I am leaving [color=white]Mirsky’s suit for now… I don’t think I will have him in the final scene)
I am only not too sure about the collar though
It is upright like this due to laziness rather than design :sad: [/color]

The reason of the “Detour” with the NURBS patch to begin with was because of the natural wrinkles you get when you loft from curves not properly aligned.
To encourage the areas I wanted wrinkled, I inserted Isoparms and rotated the CV’s SLIGTHLY clockwise or counter clockwise to the previous curve.
After converting the NURBS to polygons, there was literally little work left in that area, even around the crouch… only appending polygons.

I’ll try to post some more of the updates I lacked in presenting…

Ps: The censors are there since the text “nudity” can not be mounted on our Challenge posts… or I haven’t found out how yet.


I was hoping to post more updates
But too may things wrongly developed today, and I only was able to get on the computer.
Right now some (disappointing) renders are occupying my processor, so I thought I would just as well put together some of my earlier texture render test and its textures.

The source images were taken in a Metro-Station in Brussels. The bottom three though are not mine… they are from PhotoStock.
It’s not too difficult to see how I have extracted the textures.

Unfortunately these are about 45 percent coverage shaders… and even though they render fantastic in GI and/or normal lighting, with Ray-Trace and FG (or even FAKE FG) the results are as follows
And this is NOT good news for my part

I am back to the blackboard on too many things



I deeply sympathize with you Black! I’m running into the same problems. I knew I did not/do not have
time to paint all my textures so I’m trying to cheat be creating a batch of cheap procedurals. But sadly thats exactly what I have cheap procedurals. It just does not make things look real at all. So I’m back at the re-thinking stange and sadder still therres no time for re-thinking.
I wish you much better luck then I’m having!!


[size=2][color=silver]Apparently the answer was staring me RIGHT in the face!![/size] (The disc in the front of the render scene to be more exact)
Today was a horrid day, and I guess my mind is suffering still from the burdens of it :sad:[/color]

On the metal disc/saucer primitive, I wondered WHY I didn’t get the texture at first
then I thought to myself that it must have had been from the disc being in the shadows
so that must be a depth map shadow artefact (The scene had a total lighting of 80 lights, 64 of them with depth-maps assigned)
And THAT got me to first stupidly increase the size of the depth-map
and THEN it struck me
I was rendering against one or Mental-Ray’s primary rules:
Do NOT use Depth-map shadows!
(IF you must
then scroll a little more down to activate mental-Ray’s own Depth-map shadows

Doing a render right now in fact

I’ll post it when my hands are free.
(The textures are up to a rate handeled, and don’t look too bad… but none the less it was not all of my problems with my scene… IT’s going to be a LOONG night. Thank you for always being such great suppor!)



You know those times when you just keep doing little test renders, with preview settings
and NOTHING looks right… but then you suddenly be very stupid and just boost up all the dials/settings to high quality production render? Getting NO where ofcourse…

Well I sort of did that a few times tonight
til I finally got to the solution as posted in the thread.
Aparently I was rendering these with low res Dept-map shadows in mental ray
I forgot to change the settings of my light dome.

As a result now: I like this result much better.

The really spikey piece is suppose to help me picture how the shader would work on the city. I used a projection method called [color=lemonchiffon]triPlanar projection in MaYA. And used the same for the city (Though it was a little more tricky from the cylindrical ground plane)
The projection uniquely differs from the Cubic projection in a way that cubicProjection is just about the same projection method as cylindrical/spherical
it projects from the centre out but using six planes instead of a 360 degree view.[/color]

What this Tri-Planar does is it projects planar from top/bottom, side and front/back (Three Sides). It evaluates the facing angle and switches to the most suitable plane, instead of uniformly spreading from centre out.

In organic modelling it can give a bit of a patchy result
but in buildings or machinery, it works great, and setting it up is just about effortless.

Til next;



your a professional black, seem youre presenting your work for both student and client.
hope you can update some compostion and some lights:thumbsup: