DSF: Guys lets talk...


#21
Sounds fun! Things like avatar snowball fights were great fun to watch. (of course, it's a bit hard for people like me with no avatar :) )
Yes, especially if it was optional (as TheRed suggests). Just something to spice it up a bit!

#22

drawing styles would be great. i have to admit i’m extremely lazy and i never go out of my photoshop style (i draw and paint very differently by hand, even my subject matter changes drastically), so something to force me out of it and try new things would be great.


#23

I like the time limits, mostly dealing in the 30 min/60 min range. It adds to the challenge of it all, making us consider the importance of time economy in art. Orson Welles used to say ‘The enemy of art is the absence of limitations’ Some of my best work and improvement have come out of such limits.


#24

I vote to keep the time limits.

I always used this challenge to throw a quick idea onto a page and flex my now atrophied creative muscles; not to produce a finished piece. I’m fine with including some extended time challenges and NTLs, though.

I also like the idea of not having the time limit so precise. I try to do these at work between calls, keeping track of exact time is difficult.


#25

Well, although I’m not one them, apparently there are enough people who find the time limits motivational and useful and since there are those of us who don’t, why not have it both ways. It is already pretty much like that - a lot of people will not stop if they feel more work is needed and I don’t think anyone will keep working if they feel the sketch is ready before the time limit. But to avoid deterring people who think that the time limits are not enough for their ideas, the rules should be put in such way that attracts more work to this forum.
Although I’ve seen a lot of artists calling their finished work sketches to describe more spontaneous art, originally and still by definition, a sketch is a relatively faster version of a finished artwork. However “relatively fast” can mean quite different things - some people may spend months on a very detailed finished work and for such projects may consider a sketch several hours or even days of work. I think it is up to the artist to decide how to consider and call their work - sketch or finished. I don’t think it is a good idea to use the DSF rules to filter out work that some may consider as more polished.

       Regarding using time limits for comparison - I don't think comparison is  possible here and it should not be taken seriously. There are no rules  for reporting what can be considered time spent for a sketch. If you are  dealing with a client or employer, the time needed will start when you  see and start thinking about the topic and will end when you deliver the  sketch. The only reliable way to make a comparison about what different  artists can make in a certain time is to put them in an environment like a school exam  using the same soft and hardware. And that will be very  useless information because it won't tell how an artist is capable in  other environments and time limits. 
       
       Also everyone is unique and works differently. Personally I never work  continuously more than 10 minutes. I have a timer program that  interrupts me every 10 min and blocks the input for 60 seconds. I'm a  free lancer and that's how I'm used to work on jobs, I never take long  breaks but to save my hands, eyes, and mind LOL, I make frequent short  breaks. However when it is not a job but sketching for fun those  frequent breaks are always much longer than a minute which makes it very  hard to be precise with reporting the time. On top of that I'm not sure  what to report. For example I often make sketches that I never post  because I don't like them at all, but I may try a few sketches,  sometimes very similar, on the same topic and if I end up with a posted  sketch, I know very well that this was possible because of the time  spent for practicing on the previous sketches, so what time should I  report for the final sketch? And funny enough sometimes I work longer  and realize the an earlier stage is much better.:scream:

#26

I also would like to share a few thoughts about time limit vs image goal. I have some practice working directly with clients and I’m yet so see a project where the time limit is priority. Time limit is often a requirement but never a priority. The priority is always the image that the client and the artist have in mind. If there is not enough time to create the desired image, the client will say “forget it, we don’t have time” they will never say “we don’t have time for what we want, but we will use whatever can be done”.
So, in my experience, it is much more useful practice to first aim for achieving the image in your mind and then practice on speeding things up, than to do something in the time limit.


#27

I think, a reasonable broad time limit is good like “70 to 100” min, not too strict because this is not a school exam. (If you become a professional commercial illustrator, you will be forced to get used to time limits anyway.) By trying to establish a strict time plan and even adding many time categories, it will get confusing and the artist will only look at the time limit instead of creating some fun art. I really like that there is a topic for each drawing and this will make me think what to sketch and then it is up to me to choose which medium to use, be it colorful oil paint or gray scale values only. It keeps my mind fresh and i can try out new techniques and methods. The best thing is when i see what the other artists have come up with.
But i do like the idea of having a limited topic challenge every now and then, maybe once a week or 2 weeks, like draw this and that in the style of this and that artist or use only snippets from magazines to make a collage or whatever…
By throwing in some special challenges i think it can spice up the Daily Sketch.


#28

Great ideas.


#29

I’m unsure as to why time limits are such an issue…As it stands your not penalized or prevented from going over the time limit; your simply asked to post what you’ve done at the designated time limit AS WELL AS your final piece. I personally really like this, the reason being I’m no where near being considered a strong/competent digital/traditional painter, so by being able to see where everyone else is at the time limit, as well as when they’re finished with it, I am able to break it down and analyse how that persons approached the piece and then able to learn something from it.

I think if the 15/30/etc. limits were dropped it would be a blow felt by people in a similar position to myself. The only thing i think needs working on is the amount of people submitting work…but you cant really force people to pick up a graphics tab so…shrugs maybe get a little box up on the main page showing the current theme for DSF to try and entice a few more people to take a look.

Edit: And i really like the idea of the image-mash-up!! Its the sort of thing i do with friends during lectures to help get through the drier periods :stuck_out_tongue:


#30

As the feedback-thread is outdated, I post some random thoughts for the latest dsf-changes here:

I like the new topics and experiments (I wish I’d have more time to contribute)
The experiments and new “rules” make me start thinking of different ways of scribbling.
Thanks for the implant :slight_smile:

Creeto (and a few more) mentioned a “Like-Button” like Twitter/Facebook and Co.
This sounds like a simple way to expand the network, vote and share scribbles.

Also, it was a good move to bin the old voting-system.
The monthly “best-of” thread is a good alternative, but I don’t think people really like to nominate their own scribbles. As long as there is no proper voting-system… I’d choose Roberto (or any other admin) to pick some good scribbles.


#31

not sure if this is the place to ask but are analog - aka paper and pen submissions cool in here?
I know the whole place is called CG… but still.

My 2c. for the time limit stuff is that people take the competitive side too seriously - I understand exposure but really you are competing against yourself on these things. I have not participated earlier but am looking for a relaxed place where I can post some clumsy scribbles of mine. Just something to motivate me to practice. Time limits are good as quick sketching is where you establish the proportion and essentials.


#32

Oh yes, analog is just fine.
-R


#33

Hi, I have not submitted a single sketch, but have come back to this sub forum once every now and then (this is one of those times) to consider “Am I going to take the plunge & see if I can really go down this as a career path or not”. The point of my previous statement is that I believe doing these daily sketches is the best way to improve our drawing skills. Having that time restriction is crucial for someone who has much to learn.

Many small but significant mistakes teaches us more than one long lesson getting wrapped up in detail then realizing many hours later that it’s not going to fly. If a person can’t make a decent sketch with decent posture/composition/base colors etc, no number of hours is going to make the image look right.

I don’t like deadlines, I don’t like to hurry, but this is much needed artistic exercise. Some become good enough to showcase some of their sketches, most are fit to be discarded. Like someone else already pointed out, this is a particular subforum with this particular activity in mind. Those who don’t want to adhere to the timelines at all can stick to the other subforums. Above all, honesty about the time and process used should be posted along with the sketch. Daily sketch is all about learning, process, experimentation, exercise.

Anyways I’m preaching to the choir, but definitely don’t take away the “encouraged” time limits. Strictness about the time is not necessary, but having time limits is, otherwise we learn less and not as often.

Maybe more important than time is how to make a distinction for beginners/advanced sketchers. What would help beginners improve their skills faster and feel not so horrible about their skills, what would make this more of a challenge for advanced users?

I liked the idea of a similar function to the “like” button as used on facebook, but then that would turn it into a popularity contest. What about things like “honorable mention” or “most improved”.

I’m sharing my opinions way too much for someone who has not contributed any actual work so I’ll stop here. Rooting for you all, and love it that you people are here and as passionate about this as ever =).


#34

Thanks for your honesty,

I will pass your comments to the forum administrators.

-R


#35

I just posted my first sketch after what appears to be a two year absence and I have to say I’m surprised as to how quiet the forum is. I know my discipline is lacking here, but it seems like I’m not the only one.

 I was/am attracted to this forum because in my opinion it's meant to focus on the [u][b]discipline[/b][/u] of sketching on a daily basis. But after reading some of the threads and seeing some of the posts, it seems to be all about trying to post works that are as close to finished as possible.  Which in return brings in the time debate as people start to compare themselves and vote for the 'best' sketch.

I think this is defeating the purpose of the forum.

I don't think the time limits and the voting should go (it's part of the discipline and feedback), but I do think there should be a redirect of focus to make this a [u]daily sketch[/u] forum, first and foremost.  

This to me means that it should be friendly enough that absolute newbies can post and be forgiving enough that you can post something horribly unfinished at the time limit and then post the follow up without feeling bad about it.  

I think there should be room that when you post your sketch, you can ask for some advice or explain a technique that you were trying out. You know, give back to the community instead of crossing your fingers and hoping you will be picked sketch of the week.

I have a lot of respect for people like Creeto, who have been posting regularly for over two years now.  I'm no way near that level of talent, (hey, I'm one step removed from stick figures), but there should be room for people like me.  People who [b][u][i]need [/i][/u][/b]to be sketching on a daily basis to get better.

And I hope more people throw their inhibitions out the door and start posting more.

I say let's get posting... let's share, let's laugh at our horrible attempts and let's learn from one another.

Lastly, thanks to Roberto Ortiz for keeping this forum alive.  It's  quite a commitment after all these years and I think he's done a great  job!!

Thanks

#36

Thanks for your postrigiclimber!


#37

I noticed others such as myself without many posts to our name, but with heartfelt appreciation for this thread and what its done for as long as we have visited this site.

It says on the side here when I registered(2004 apparently, yikes!), but I remember reading about the Matrix on this site (Thanks for dating me 10th year anniversary special…) and I don’t remember CGtalk without thinking of the DSF.

I (like a couple others) have always wanted to participate but never felt they had the skill or even patience too. But now my life has turned around towards art and I find my Wacom ever more close to me. When I came back into lurking the DSF with intentions of joining the fray, than the comments by fellows with such similar dispositions as I, there was no choice when it came to throwing in my two cents.

I have thoughts of a separate “award” for best criticism, or something along those lines. Like a once a month thing where someone of impeccable niceness gets a little extra love for being just so damn nice.

Secondly I like the thought of instead of a subject, a grouping of colours, or shapes for us to sketch against. A kind of Exquisite corpse exercise if you will.

Thanks for hearing me out!
-Always Lurking…


#38

Great Ideas!


#39

The “award” for best criticism idea makes me think of how Amazon reviews are rated as useful or not useful. I love how at first glance, you can see best supportive and best critical review. I use that feature all the time when investigating products. Just adding to the pot of resources or inspiration if coding commences to implement this feature. Not that coding is neccesary or that it should be done this way. Definitely like this idea though. Giving good constructive feedback is not easy & takes a lot of energy.


#40

i haven’t posted here in forever but i still visit and i look at all the submissions. but i want to chime in on restrictions.

i personally like restrictions because they provide structure and focus which makes it easier to start a drawing. so i would like to suggest more restrictions in addition to the topics, for example; a style, medium or genre. i wouldn’t suggest they be mandatory, just as an extra guideline and maybe only done twice per month.

other than that it is still a joy to watch the happenings in these forum even tho it has become very slow. i myself got a child now and time seems to be fleeting and i find it hard to participate anymore.