Don't you feel cg 3d is too demanding?


#43

This is exactly what I am talking about, but that next insatiable market is going to be an entertainment content market, and one of great variety, that is extremely wide but very splintered. Many people can’t see it. Look at what TinGooch wrote (or recently un-wrote). It’s all about outpixar pixar, or the cutting edge or the bleeding edge. Too many people continue to think of the biggest of the big blockbuster or bust.

One day someone is going to take these “automated” tools, something like the next gen iClone, Moviestorm or whatever. Their visuals will not be anything special, maybe even like IKEA. They are, however, going to make a show where the main character is 70 years old and gay. There will be no action, no explosions, or incredible FX. They will, however, delve into ideas and issues which will allow them to reach an audience that is rarely, if ever, serviced by mainstream Hollywood production. They will find a strongly loyal niche audience that will continue to follow them in all that they do.


#44

That’s naive. The product won’t necessarily and automatically create a new audience. That’s not a given. It’s your responsibility as an artist to push those boundaries. Don’t wait for it to happen. That’s not the future. That’s NOW. That’s already happening. That’s what the indie & festival scene is all about, opening avenues outside of the mainstream.

Every year, we get tons of films - long and short - that aren’t normally viewed by the average moviegoer. Stuff that goes beyond the summer tent poles or Michael Bay boomfests. If you want to make a movie that delves into issues and characters… make one. Don’t wait for future tools to create a new market for you. Get off your tuchas and do it now.

What it seems to me that you’re waiting for is an easier way to hack these things out. If CG is too hard for you, set up your camera & lights and just film a live action script. If CG is what you really want, you have to put in the homework and hard work. Art is not magic, nor should it be imo.

<OPINION> Looking at your site and its claims, I can see why you have a vested interest in IKEA art. That’s not the future of CG though, only (perhaps) your business model. </OPINION>


#45

I like how web was thrown into the discussion, for various reason.

I was oldskool enough to make web using html, where web interface allow you to upload one file at a time. We are talking about geocities and the likes of free websites. There are not a lot of websites, and WYSIWYG is still basic, and usually have wys and code side by side, since once you html become complex, the wys editor side usually cannot handle it.

Therefore in order to make a website, people need to understand the whole HTML. For example tools were too simple to a point that they can help add a list, but if you want to add more item to the list, you need to understand list in HTML. Editor was more like ‘generator’ instead of editor.

Until Dreamweaver came, that is. And the rest is history. And now with blogspot, or c-panel one click editor, wordpress and what not.

While people still need websites, these usually to high end companies. For usual companies, the need for webmaster almost non existent.

I notice how latest NVIDIA shows the real time result of facial capture. So I guess technology changes.

Long story short, I agree with teruchan here. Oldskool people need to move with the times, while at the same time the market might be smaller (just like CGI market in US/Canada at the moment).


#46

You’re continually missing my point because you are focused on two things. You are focused on film and you are focused on ME. I have been making my shows the way I want to make them since 1999, so I am not waiting for anything. My point is that those who CAN’T make them now, WILL in the near future.

Cinema is not going to be the big thing in this future. The indie and festival market you speak of is as fake as Hollywood in my opinion. This future, however, will see more Broken Saints, Lonely Girl 15s and Afterworlds. They will see even more innovative, cross media projects that we haven’t even thought of yet.


#47

3D cg is just a tool to tell a story.

Half my problem is working out a story worth telling to make the investment in using 3D worthwhile to begin with.

And even then I wonder why I didn’t just use After Effects or PS and just drop some tweaked cloud footage in behind a scene rather than using HDRi’s, volumetric clouds and all that jazz for backgrounds.

3D can play an amazingly small role in a final piece that looks very 3D heavy in my experience… so it’s as much about using restraint too I guess?

Dave


#48

I did IT support for some time and I can tell you that got annoying. CG stuff, as mentioned moves pretty slow.

I’m now digesting Adobe creative suite and there are literally 3 ways of doing everything. For example in web design I could use Muse, Dreamweaver or Indesign. Now updating my website, a .net application, which uses VWD and images and databases hosted on Azure. To animate an image I could use Photoshop, AE or EdgeAnimate. It’s endless. But I am hoping that once I have everything set up and working it will go easier. More features = more possibilities but you actually have to take the time to evaluate wether or not it will make things go faster and even THIS takes away from actually creating something so you have to be careful about always demoing and never creating I think.

Everyone looks at my stuff and thinks it easy but I can tell you that when I started in Carrara it was a “modeling program”. Nobody used it for animation. I hacked my way through but it was not easy. Now with new versions some of this drugery will go away and it will work better, making my life easier.

Anyway, back to remembering what I forgot about CSS… interesting thread…


#49

Talk about IT… Microsoft creating tech and dropping it like nightmare :cry:

Even in the early DirectX, it kept changing. Although these rapid changes is the reason it can leave OpenGL behind for a while. But the bombshell was, what, DX8? When there is no DirectDraw? For a while before they put it back.

And SilverLight…

and much much more…

Now the word is that Unity 3D abandoning Flash because Adobe is not so serious in that regard. Maybe once HTML5 is mainstream enough, Flash will go the way of the dinosaur.


#50

I can safely say that yours is the first website I’ve ever been to that has a 7 minute Carrara 3D fantasy animation AND a built in dating service.


#51

when I say “it looks easy” I mean that y’all work in big studios and stuff and you could do better I am sure.

I’m mostly a “content creator”. Making stuff for internet consumption. Being a writer just is not enough these days. Sadly I found that not enough people can read :frowning: It’s too much work.

To tell a story properly these days it needs a visual component.

I have run meetnewplayers.com ; a musician referral service for 15 years now; kind of a dating site for bands, really. I learned alot doing that. You have to build sites that are secure and scalable, just in case you hit one day.

And when telling THIS story it seemed that the only proper ending for a NeverEndingPrincessStory is that she would get married; ie: become the Queen. That’s how that dating part came about, really…


#52

I, I, saw it!


#53

The more you learn about cg along a generalist learning curve-I think the more one might desire to restrain-that’s how its been for me.

Originally I started to learn CG because I was told it was a steady income for a modeller but once I got into it it became an obsessive personal creative thing–I preferred learning as a generalist so I could make my own effects films like had with stop motion a decade earlier (which I gave up on because I didnt want to learn metal working to make armatures and get a chemical scale to mix foam rubber and all the complex stuff required to do an in camera matte).

My goal was to be able to do better than Sy Fy quality character animation from scratch. Things that wouldnt look like I just pasted together something using default procedures and stock video game animation files.
After about 7 years of learning it finally reached a point where it wasnt boring and I could guess at how long it would take to make a project shot without too many delays due to ignorance of a process or wasted time because I didnt see the short cuts.

And where I felt comfortable cheating.
All that matters is getting the shot, even if it means painting things by hand into the frame. Or using stock footage and altering it in after effects or photoshop.

Now I am at a point where I can actually enjoy it as I work (making a fake movie trailer for a Harryhausen style sword and sorcery film that will be used as a book ad). Been working on it for a year now. It gets boring and tedious but then I finish a shot and switch to another.
Best time I have had with graphics.

However, I am mostly working in standard definition not high def, at most 720 HD and I down rez it to blur it up and make it look dirty and hand-touched. I use obscure old movie footage as source material when I can, and add CG elements into it. Or remove things from the scene.Lots of painting frame by frame.

And I havent kept up to speed on new processes techniques very much. I havent tried out new features in zbrush for years. Just what I use for sculpting and displacement/painting.

I havent done much with animated hair and fur rendering–my last big obstacle. If I dont need it much I may cheat using polygons or comped footage from something (as long as it doesnt look composited in).

The computer does a lot for you, but not the serious artistic decision making that is required to make something not look too fake or out of scale or blended into a scene. You need to develop a keen eye for effects to spot the things that dont look right.
An automated computer program would have to get really really sophisticated to be able to remove that work load. I dont see it happening anytime soon.


#54

Hooray!! More pointless moaning and whinging abut our jobs :rolleyes:


#55

just to put this in perspective, CG isn’t as demanding as a lot of other job fields - military, firefighters, police, mining, etc where you can actually die trying to do your job.


#56

That’s not putting it into perspective, that’s stating the obvious.

I don’t like getting hit in the groin with a hammer but if I was, I doubt the thought “At least I’m not on fire!” would help.


#57

Well initally this thread was discussing the constant changes in technology and software and the requirements to keep up with trends and changes, I served in the Marines for 5 years and in that regard we didn’t have to keep up with changes in training such as software, hardware, tactics, everything stayed very similar my entire time while regarding cg 5 years is huge. Just try doing a tutorial for Maya 2013 while using Maya 2008 and I am sure there will be hickups, I had this happen while using a 2010 training book but 2012 if I remember right, some were minor though there certainly are decent shifts here and there.

Of course differnet fields are demanding in ways such as physically moving equipment or stressful situations, what was originally discussed was more how the cg field faces constant change and shift because it does fall heavily into technology. I don’t feel that “demanding” is quite the right word though I understand the intent in presenting the topic.


#58

But this forum just wouldn’t be the same without our daily dose of woe-is-me :slight_smile:


#59

Well, tight deadlines and too much redbull can kill you too. Not instantly but stil… :surprised


#60

My question was a bit more specific, though maybe not clear - the ratio of profit to pain so to speak. Ok, it wasn’t clear at all as I can see - but it was a hard time for me so I missed it completely. A new demanding job, and I worked without weekends. To me I felt the pain started becoming too much, and i reduced my ambitions lately, re-thinking my roadmap of learning (not working).
My main issue was that I couldn’t find the right application for my education (not the same as finding work), and further learning would give diminishing returns and taking too much of my life. I think my problem was that I started learning cg a bit too lately for my ambitious plan - being 22 and today I’m 30. Basically, I wanted to know everything. A childish dream, though possible to realize at some level, but I’m happy stopping where I am. I want to specialize and it’s not that mind-blowing any longer in terms of complexity. It still requires almost all of my knowledge, so I feel quite settled for my inquisitive mind, and I can choose of 3 main directions where it all, or almost all, can be used. It’s not that I whined about modeling or just texturing, as sometimes happens to people, and is also understandable.
Reading replies made me feel better, knowing others also encountered the same issues, so though I understand to some people it might be boring to read, it did help me, so I thank you.

Perhaps it’s just another example of projecting personal disorders of a confined mind to the whole industry.


#61

I think that it might be more fair to say that they’re just different, apples vs oranges. As a CG artist, you might not have to worry gunshots, IEDs or black lung, but that doesn’t mean that you’re as carefree as a security guard at a pillow factory. It’s been discussed here many times, but CG artists often have to worry about long term health issues. You might find somebody who only works a 40 hour week, but you might as easily find somebody who works 2x that. Coming from a family of cops and military servicemen, all I can say is that a coronary will kill you just as surely as a .44 would. I’ve had many family members happily retire after 30 years on the job (police/usaf). I’ve also had more than a few friends barely make it 8-10 years in the industry before burning out. Individual results may vary.


#62

And being a policeman isn’t as much of a short straw as being born in the wrong country and being recruited in the army at 11 to die at 12 in a firefight, for no pay, with no indemnity corresponded to your family (or what’s left of it from the last village butchering).

Sure, It might be good to remind ourselves occasionally that we’re more or less debating a “first world problem”, and be grateful to anything between God and quantum physics (depending on inclination), and consequently try to squelch one’s sense of self-entitlement a bit.
It doesn’t have a lot to do with this forum or the topic at hand, does it? :slight_smile: