Dominance War II: Ill_Logic

#21

Hey nice model so far. I like the short hair good choice =) She looks a little off balance in the pose, but that could just be the 2D thing, once its in 3D it might work. Is that how you will pose her?

#22

I liked your concept #2 the best, but with the hair of concept #1. I believe that would be the strongest design for this character. Peace,

  • me
#23

hey response! lol thanks guys.

valri22- thanks! i appreciate the feedback. as for the concept sketch, the silhouette i did originally i was toying with the idea of her levitating through the assistance of that weapon, but it didn’t pan out, but to save time i just used that silhouette anyway. so she’s not really balancing, just floating lol she’ll be nice, grounded, & balanced in the final pose. i’m thinking something kind of like an exaggerated ninja stance or something, maybe something kind of kata like. or maybe just have her looking pissed & showing a lot of attitude. i’ll figure all that out later once i get more done lol

sanhueza- seems to be the theme in the thread. i post options looking for opinions & no one gets back to me about then until days later & i already made another choice lol thanks anyway but in retrospect 2’s too simple i think. shiny white plastic on a stealthy character seems anti intuitive. then again orange glowing probably is too. and i don’t know how well the hood would work with the spiky hair. either way i’m going with 5 but thanks. i might use the shin guards though

as for the modeling process: nothing to report really but i was working out kinks the time i got to work today. shaped legs & arms but i don’t think i’m sticking too close to the concept art. maybe shin guards & maybe gloves that arn’t just giant bowling balls & extend further up the arm. also i was playing with the idea of adding cords out the back of her armor. no reason really. just as sort of a neat peripheral motion sort of thing. they had sensor sort of bulbs at the end.

did sculpt a base though. nothing special. just a downed pillar covered in melting debris lol just got sick of looking at the model but still wanted to be constructive.

one problem i did run into today was how the claws actually attach to the hands. still working that one out. i like the spiral at the base but it may end up that that’s just the thumbs & the spiral’s in the palm? dunno yet. more soon!

-J

#24

another modeling update:

this is the layout of the base body mesh. i’m working on the armor now. the arms are intentionally long so she can kind of be at home on two legs or all four. same reason she sort of walks on the balls of her feet. i haven’t done much detail to the shins or the forearms since they’ll mostly be covered anyhow. i modeled regular hands on her as opposed to the claws. i’ve been toying with the idea of blend shapes on the hands so her fingers can ‘pop’ into big f-off claws like those in the ‘armored’ shot. i know the competition isn’t about animation but i thought it would be a nice little thing to make the character unique. besides, how could she grab hold of things if her fingers were always superheated claws?
i’m a little behind where i was hoping to be at this point but i have the whole day free until this evening (300!) so expect more soon.

-J

#25

I really like the concept work. You went with my favorite, although I liked the head from 4 :wink:

I guess with the extra long arms, you’ll have to be careful they don’t look like spaghetti strings :slight_smile: Just beacause her arms don’t have a lot of muscle or armour to give them shape and definition. I was thinking though, if she walks on all fours, why would she need long arms? Four legged creatures don’t have disproportionately long forearms, or are you thinking more like an orangutan?

How will she be holding the chakram? Just wondering because of her claw hands (which are awesome btw).

#26

I love the concept for you character although I feel the model itself is straying from it a bit. The girl in your drawing looks 16 while the model feels more like 25. Theres a nice duality of a youthful looking ancient in your concept that is lost from the model itself. I hope you get to finish. Keep posting.

#27

thanks guys!

mattcoombe - thanks! yeah i was keeping the arms a bit thin so that they don’t start intersecting the arm gear. the finished version might look like the one in that 3rd concept, going up her arm more. i think once that’s sitting on there, they’ll be clunky enough not to be spaghetti. as for the on-fours thing, my ultimate intention is a character that would look equally at home either way. so yeah, orangutan is kind of a good comparison, or like the ifrit character in the final fantasy games. besides i thought the longer arms would help increase her slashing distance a bit too, like the chinese ghost girl in the darkstalkers games (who’s name escapes me at the moment). and as for the chakram, originally i was thinking about having her control it mentally so basically it kind of just spun in a stationary position behind her until she kind of ‘willed’ it at somebody. but now, with this blend shape idea, she might grab it via those bars in the middle of it. i really like the spiral at the base of the claw but it just doesn’t attach to the hand properly. so it’ll start off as a normal hand but the fingers will stretch & sharpen into that shape. the spiral may end up only in the palm by the thumb though. thanks for all the great feedback! i appreciate it! sorry i got long winded lol it’s a nasty habit!

junerahe - i never actually had an age in mind for the actual character. definitely under 30 but not particularly as young as 16. i just drew the concept & typically i draw rounder cheeks. i think that the model has a sharper jaw line and that’s the discrepancy. the facial reference i used for the model (provided by my lovely sister actually), while not too much older, is a bit more athletic looking, which i think suits the whole elite soldier element. that & i kept the brow rather sharp & pronounced too. i figured it was a little stronger than one you’d typically see in your average human, so that she wasn’t just an average human but grey. but not a cromag either lol i’ll do some tweaks though & see what i can come up with.

didn’t get as much done today as i was hoping… 300 was really awesome though… (yeah so i slacked off today, sue me! lol) anyway i keep messing with that armor around her neck. i’d like to take it into mudbox, add some dings, dents, & properly flesh out all those engravings (the orangey parts) but i can’t seem to get it to keep that shape (with the seams in the shape) once i smooth it. i think i’ll probably have to do it in individual pieces. which is going to take even more time. oh well. more soon i hope!

-J

#28

right so i was about ready, with the impending deadline approaching, i was just about ready to nix the idea of normal mapping. but thanks to fredh & anyone else, it got pushed back so i was trying to give it a go after all. i’ve only normal mapped once before this though & when i did that model i ran into all sorts of problems. now it’s starting all over again.

here’s the deal:

for some reason the side of my model (i modeled the other side) is getting blown out when i click render. i don’t know why. i realize there are problems when things get flipped but i did what i thought fixed it (duplicated, flipped, freezed, set to face, & combined) & it gets all blown out & nasty. and the high quality view isn’t much nicer. also, what’s with the cruddy definition with the rest of the face? why does everyone else’s normal map look pretty badass & mine are turning out all splotchy & crap?

anyone else run into any problems like this?

-J

#29

Is it a half UV? Did you check the normals of the mirrored face? Smoothing groups? I had a slightly similar problem last time, but mostly being irregular normals (some are facing backwards). I am pretty sure its something to do with the normals but can’t help you out otherwise.

BTW, very nice work. The arms however seems a little bit long, don’t you think?

#30

I’m getting similar result when i’m redering with a normalmap on. Don’t know how to fix it either.
So if anybody know how to fix this.I would be very happy and I think ill_logic would be happy too :).

#31

Illogic: try inverting or swapping the channels ( max has 3 checkbox to do it) and be sure you are generating a space tangent normal when working with chars, other thing is depending on where you are generating your normal map and even your video card. i would advice you to make very simple tests to get exactly how it works. normalmaps are temperamental things but once you decipher them they are really helpfull.
EDIT
I think this is UV trouble apply a relax face angle on everything, the uvs that get very weird are inverted. the solution is simple, ctrl z and invert the weird ones, do the relax again for check and generate the normal again.

#32

thanks guys. i don’t know what the problem is but if i rotate around the side of it, the ‘blow out’ exceeds more than just the one half & onto the other if i look from like a 3/4 view from the reverse side.

yung - the uvs for the face are laid out fully (not folded in half) like i said, it’s duplicated but i flipped it the way i thought i was supposed to & all of the normals are facing the proper way. i mean wouldn’t there have been problems with that in mudbox if they weren’t? i displayed the normals & they seem the same on both sides, none inverted or anything. thanks anyway. also the arms were an intentional thing, that was mentioned earlier. i might still tweak them but right now i’m concerned with this.

kirgan - let me know if you find anything! :thumbsup:

rept0r - thanks, but a lot of what you’re talking about is max jargon & i’m afraid i’m only versed in maya at this point. but as i said, i’ve turned on the normal display & they’re all facing out ok, none are inverted. i don’t know if there’s someway to flip the map’s color channel on a face in maya (?!) but that might be helpful. the maps were done as tangent & i tried both through mudbox & xnormal, only to get the same results (though xnormal seemed a lot less pixelated). i hope it isn’t necessarily a video card thing. that’s pretty much the last thing i can figure, & i used this card with the last normal maps too. hmm. thanks. i appreciate the assistance.

if anyone else knows of anything, please help! lol

-J

#33

sorry to be a jerk but i wanted to bump this so i could maybe get this problem resolved a little sooner than later. even though the deadline’s been pushed back, i’d still like to be diligent with it & use that time wisely rather than spend it fixing up the maps. any help would be greatly appreciated!

-J

#34

if you could post your normal map texture that might help us to figure this out quicker.

#35

thanks, didn’t figure to post it since it seemed to look generally ok to me. it seemed to me something more with the mesh or shader or something.

mind you it will be a 1024x1024 (i reduced this one) with the hair & eyes & ears & such. i know it gets a little crazy at the edges (and around the nose there a bit) but that wasn’t showing up much. this help?

-J

#36

i dont think anything is wrong with the normal map. can you tell where that screenshot is from. i could probably suggest somehting but i need more info on how you set up the shader, what renderer etc.

#37

that previous shot is a maya software render with a normal blinn (the normal map attached through the normal camera) & default lights. and when i switch to a different light set up, the whole thing gets blown out even more. but it all blows out from the one side usually. sometimes it’ll carry over past the axis (where the faces were merged) but even if the light was on the other side, it blows out on that side. i don’t get it.

and i know that software renders aren’t the norm for game models but i didn’t know it blew out normal maps like that…? what would be a nice way to still present the model in the beauty shots?

-J

#38

Ok, yeah, the normal looks fine.

Let me run my list of possible things mucking it up:

  1. Make sure you bump/normal is set to tangent space in the material -then try flipping the Blue channel in the normal map(your normals simply might be flipped, so light areas are darkened, and dark areas are lightened)
  2. Render in Maya Hardware mode. Maya’s Software and Mental ray don’t work with normal maps- god knows why.
  3. Check your lights if you’re using any
  4. Try moving your work into a new file
  5. Threaten your computer with a stick.
    [edit]
    actually sounds like your flipping uvs might be mucking it up.
    I just checked your file, and your blue channel is fine.
    Let me investigate a little more.
    [edit2]
    Yeah, the problem must be on your model. Your normals work fine. They’re muddy because the normal itself is muddy. Check to make sure you’re sampleing at the highest quality when baking.

As for the model, delete all history, merge all unmerged veritices, smooth the normals. I simply can’t replicate the problem with my computer, so I’m not quite sure. Try deleting your maya prefs folder for a clean startup, see what happens.

#39

actually you dont even need to do any render.

if you turn on high quality rendering and plug the normal to the shader it should show properly at least one side.

as for other softwares you can try xNormal http://www.xnormal.net/

you can do you beauty shots in there as well.

edit:

i just tried out an example file provided in xnormal program by the artist Paul Greveson:

connect out color of the normal map to normal camera

#40

actually yeah, at the end of the day I wouldn’t recommend rendering in maya anyways, if you’re doing normal maps.

Maya tends to wash out textures in the hardware render anyways. Hell, its viewport rendering is better.