Does "The Industry" still use Adobe for digital art? Serious moral questions.


#13

It depends though… It’s not correct to say it doesn’t matter if you know photoshop or use something else.
It does matter. There’s a few important differences. And it’s not correct at all to think if you know how to work with Gimp you can do a job that requires you to use Photoshop.
Gimp lacks a lot of the not-so-obvious-to-the-average-user functionality (the color management, or printing for press for example).
Just look at how long it took for Gimp to have 16bit support.
Look at the job description if it mentions any requirements of knowing photoshop and just to be sure it doesn’t hurt to mention you use Gimp during the interview.
That way you avoid possible problems because of miscommunication and mentioning it will give a more positive impression.


#14

I dont use gimp or know about its history. It was just an example. I took a look at some job postings and its the usual: maya, max, saw blender once or twice, photoshop, zbrush. Basically the big names. I guess I have my answer.


#15

The requirement also can often be a compatibility issue. A company may trade files around and even work together all on the same version of software to ensure nothing gets messed up during production as people trade files around opening and saving.

If a company requires adobe skills, then that’s what you need despite if you can get your own work done with Gimp or Krita, etc

So in that case, I think Adobe does have a pretty solid lock on the industry. Freelancers and small studios may be able to use whatever they like. I don’t consider it a moral issue to pay Adobe or Autodesk for their software. That’s a budget and workflow concern, not a moral one IMO.


#16

True, and some software like Nuke allows reading of full layered PSD files which can massively streamline work like texturing or projection while not creating compression or file conversion issues.


#17

…on the other hand; a student license/subscription is dirt cheap considered you will gain access to so many different packages. Every single workplace I’ve been at have taken it for granted that one at least know Photoshop and illustrator as a creative.


#18

[quote=]It just feels wrong to support a company that does this but it honestly looks like no one cares other than the users who cancel. So basically do I need photoshop to get into digital art, concept art, whatever you want to call it? Is it a necessary evil? Or have we reached a point where you can find a concept artist using clip studio paint next to another artist using paint storm studio in Blizzard? I wouldnt know because I dont know anyone from there and I havent got any responses from Blizzard when I asked.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated![/quote]
For the most part no. We have not reached a point where artists are using different software in production. Your major players (and most of your smaller ones) are still running Adobe and AD products. In the case of Adobe, I wouldn’t call it “supporting Adobe” so much as “held hostage by Adobe”. Their stuff is still the industry standard for so many things and the comparable alternatives tend not to really be all that comparable. Plus you have all those files saved in formats that generally seem to stop working once your cloud sub ends.

At home I’ve been running CS6 since the Cloud hit. I just had to upgrade to the CC subscription because CS6 wasn’t getting along w/Win10 at all (actually nothing seems to like Windows 10 lol). It’s just an unfortunate fact of life at this point, and it’s only going to get worse. When Adobe first moved to the cloud, many of the supporters claimed it wasn’t likely Adobe would raise the sub. price. It’s just gone up to 52.99 USD a month. I can see a future where it hits double that a month.

I work at a very large company (we have over 200 CC subscriptions). We used to have Adobe speak regularly at company events. There was a time when they would have artists give brilliant demos of unusual or unexpected things you could do w/Adobe software. We’ve stopped inviting them because now they send sales people to speak instead. They launch a program (usually PS) and immediately open up the CC Library pallette so they can access Adobe Stock and begin their 40 minute sales pitch.

TL;DR:

Yeah, it’s kind of sad to see what Adobe has become. On the other hand, they are still the industry standard for many things. If you want to put food on your table, you’re probably going to have to know and use their stuff.


#19

Adobe just announced they’re raising prices

I’ve seen it happen to a few people now, but photoshop 2018 is slow to the point of being unusable, even for basic things. I recommended to everyone on our team to downgrade to 2015 if they want the speed back. Also some people can’t use Premiere 2018 for similar reasons with things not working right and instead have to use 2017.


#20

Just MY 2c, and I’m NOT currently in the CG industry - which of GIMP and Photoshop is BETTER?? Isn’t THAT the right question to ask??!!

Also, just to point out, with the rise of the “cloud”, or whatever you want to call it, there are these tiny “little” programs that are on the web - ie. they run INSIDE A BROWSER!! These are so far, quite tiny, but… maybe tomorrow they’ll be bigger (with people’s support)? I think THAT’s something worth putting your weight behind, not because Adobe is crap, but because a monopoly is by definition, bad.
Here’s a list:

sketch.io
pixlr.com/editoriPaintCanvaspaint
…and there used to be one called MugTug, donno whether that’s still there.
Also heard of this: Autodraw

  • that one “assists” you using Machine Learning.

#21

WEBASSEMBLY will very soon allow graphics software like Photoshop and all other alternatives to run inside a web browser and from a web page it is being hosted on:

http://webassembly.org/

This will totally destroy Adobe’s cloud model, and they will probably go back to allowing perpetual licenses.

With WEBASSEMBLY:

1) Every software written with it is “in the cloud” - it sits on a web server
2) The software almost runs at the speed of native C++
3) The software is cross-platform and can run on just about any OS you want to use
4) Web pages can charge you for use “by the minute” or “by the second” if they want to

So you could go to a photo editing website, use its Photoshop-clone on the webpage for 45 minutes to touch up some images, pay 45 cents for the service and leave the website again.

You are literally looking at hyper-complex, fast-running CG graphics software being able to load from a webpage, run inside the web browser, and charge you only for the minutes or hours you use it.

So Adobe’s model - in my humble opinion - is just a few years away from being roast chicken.

All the Photoshop clones coming out now will probably - soon - become pay-per-use WEBASSEMBLY apps sitting on various webpages.


#22

There are already viable Photoshop equivalents out there, Affinity the first that comes to mind. Personally I find GIMP clunky enough to be unbearable, but if someone redid the UI and ironed a few things out it’d probably be OK. Lack of alternatives isn’t the reason why Adobe has a monopoly.


#23

This right here makes it a “no go” for a lot of places. Even where I work now, Adobe had to grant a special license with regards to the “cloud” portion of CC.

Personally, I see more drawbacks than pluses with regards to a web based program. The other issue is, even if you can find something to replace Photoshop, it still has to integrate cleanly with the rest of the pipeline, and you have, at that point only eliminated the need for Photoshop. Which means you’re still using the rest of the CC suite. As it stands right now, there really aren’t and real contenders for replacements to AE and Premiere. Especially not with how tightly integrated Dynamic link is.

It also wouldn’t surprise me to see Adobe do something like add a tag to anything made in Photoshop. Then make all the other programs look for that tag when importing files. No tag, no import. It’s sad to think, but that’s the kind of company they’ve become.


#24

Yes, I agree with you - when I was studying Javascript, it struck me that it’s been heading towards this from Day 1 - i.e since they started putting SO MUCH functionality inside the browser. But don’t forget that we’ll need like, Gbps Fiber or something though, to actually GET the code - I don’t think all parts of the world have that :frowning:


#25

Did anyone try out my links?? :slight_smile:


#26

I have Affinity Photo and Designer. They aren’t quite as good as Photoshop/Illustrator yet, but they are very close and very cheap.


#27

Edit: nevermind.


#28

Indeed …
Also consider that some image editing involves
proprietary content that a contracted party may be legally prohibited
From connecting it to the web in any fashion.

I actually worked for printing company as Graphic Designer in Northern Virginia USA ,some years ago, that
had a contract with the White House to digitally print all of the official images taken by the official white house photographer.

We all had to get FBI checks and upgraded security clearances
and the digital printer was in a locked air gapped room
essentially a “Faraday cage”.
There was no way we could have used some “cloud service” for this.
I imagine there would be similar security concerns in may sectors of private industry.


#29

It would probably result in to Adobe having it’s cloud running in a web browsers for a monthly fee…
I’m pretty sure they already were thinking about this way before they started with CC.
The current CC is just a middle step to get there.

I fail to see how having software run in a web browser over the net is a good thing.
It just makes us even more dependent of them.


#30

[quote=]Indeed …
Also consider that some image editing involves
proprietary content that a contracted party may be legally prohibited
From connecting it to the web in any fashion.

I actually worked for printing company as Graphic Designer in Northern Virginia USA ,some years ago, that
had a contract with the White House to digitally print all of the official images taken by the official white house photographer.

We all had to get FBI checks and upgraded security clearances
and the digital printer was in a locked air gapped room
essentially a “Faraday cage”.
There was no way we could have used some “cloud service” for this.
I imagine there would be similar security concerns in may sectors of private industry.
[/quote]

Exactly. I spent a few years working in the art department for a nuclear power company. You want to talk about cyber security? They would immediately point shotguns at anyone who even said “cloud, web browser, etc etc.”

Even a lot of the studios I have worked at over the years where we weren’t making anything “top secret” in that sense still had pretty strict rules about how you could work on things. Our machines weren’t land locked, but to even send. something to an online render farm required a lot of red tape to be cut. Even where I work now, where the security rules are slightly more lax, I can imagine them looking at us and saying “So … the program is IN the web browser … so OUR IP is IN the web browser while you’re working on it? GTFO w/that!”

[quote=]I fail to see how having software run in a web browser over the net is a good thing.
It just makes us even more dependent of them.[/quote]Me too. I can only imagine the pay models that would accompany that. The digital equivalent of pumping coins into a washing machine at the laundry mat. No thanks.


#31

Well, YOU may not like it, but can you imagine how much cash Adobe loses thanks to torrents and even pirate discs burned FROM torrents, using the “application.exe” model for the software on them!!! Things like this are common here, where I live…you just go to <required area of town> and there’s people right there, with a stall on the street, with all the software your heart desires… As far as the law enforcement in THIS country at least, Nothing has been done…

So, for the “move to the cloud” - Adobe (or any other software vendor) may not have a choice.


#32

So the solution is to punish the people that do give money to Adobe? Piracy does not equal lost money in the way such a company would have you believe. If it’s available for free it would have to be terrible to not want it, but had paying for it been the only option, the number of customers would not have been proportionally greater. People in poor countries can’t afford it and amateurs can’t justify it. Only with constant use of the product do the people that can’t afford/justify become able to do so as their skills develop. I think piracy hurts the legitimate freelancer more, because their direct competition who pirates has virtually no overheads.