Digi-Painting workflow (B&W vs color from start)

#1

I’m curious, how do most digital painters work? Do you do most/all of your painting in greyscale, then use an overlay/color layer and adjust the curves of the value layers? Or do you work with color from the get-go?
I consider myself somewhat of a novice in the painting realm (compared to many of the brave artists here, otherwise I consider myself advanced when compared to my BFA-CG peers), and I find first painting the value only more managable since I don’t have to worry about hue and saturation. What are the pros and cons of working this way compared to working from the start with color? I’m just curious what others here are doing, and their advice.

#2

Either way is fine. From my understanding, usually people do black and white first to make sure the values are right before adding colour. I think it comes down to what level you have reached. If you can see the value of your colours easily then you might as well start painting with colour. Otherwise, start with black and white until you get the eye for it.

Phil

#3

I don’t know how MOST digital painters work, but I know that I use both techniques. It depends on the subject matter and how much reference I have. If I have only a little or no reference, I’ll tend to work in grayscale at first. If I have a lot of reference, I’ll often start in color. The thing about working in color from the start is that you can create problems with the values and not even realize it–you just know something isn’t right. The thing about working in grayscale and then colorizing is that you sometimes lose the complexities of the color. I tend to end up with really tight, refined grayscale but rather bland colorizing layers. I really need to practice more with the colorizing before I write it off, though.

Both methods are nice. Experiment with both, and regularly alternate. It’s nice to switch up the workflow from time to time–keeps you from resting on your laurels, and helps you find new techniques to add to your arsenal.

#4

I’ve often tried to start with color, but it always ends in tears. Admittedly, color has always been my weakest area, but I figured forcing myself to think about it would help me improve. Not so. If anything, it just gets me more confused. I prefer to start with what I know reasonably well, which is rendering in black and white, and then I have room to fuss around with the color, knowing I’ve got a big chunk of the thinking over with. If I start with color, it just messes everything up for me. But so far, I’ve not come out with any successful pieces. I mostly do lineart and color it comic-book style, but I can’t for the life of me come up with a fully rendered drawing.

#5

I’ve tryed both, although paitning in greyscale is quicker I somewhat feel as though I’m cheating. At the moment I am trying to practice more with painting colour first :slight_smile:

#6

Ignore the impulse that tells you that painting in grayscale is cheating, enialadam. The only time you’re truly “cheating” in art is when the art itself is not coming from you. (Even that is excusable in the industry at times, bit it’s still technically cheating.) When you paint in grayscale and then colorize the painting, you’re taking advantage of a workflow option that Photoshop provides.

#7

I feel more comfortable working whit colors from the start personally. It keeps me motivated, and I don’t get bored whit it all that fast.
I personally can’t stand working in greyscale for more than one non-living oject myself, but it’s supposed to be a very efficent way to start a painting.

Madaleine- Why do you see it as cheating? if it goes faster, its just your dirty little trick :slight_smile:

#8

I see too many people (everyday on the forums) who start out with color prematurely and who end up with a giant mess on their hands and without a clue as to how to fix it. I think that it’s always best for beginners to start with grayscale, and then to progress to color. Regarding working in grayscale as being ‘cheating’ ~ is Leonardo here ‘cheating’ in the way in which he started his painting?

[http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vinci/magi.jpg](http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vinci/magi.jpg)

magi.jpg950x917 

Many Renaissance artists started their panels this way ~ approaching the work began with a drawing, then the drawing was transferred to canvas, wall, or panel, and then depending on the artist, proceeded to build value and then paint transparent layers of color overtop. Of course there are other artists who begin with color right away, but they could not do so successfully without a solid understanding of value.

I would recommend for any beginner, either in the traditional or the digital medium, to start with grayscale. 

For an excellent description of the grayscale > color method, see Stahlberg's painting tutorial here:

[http://www.androidblues.com/JealousyStepbystep/jealousystep.html](http://www.androidblues.com/JealousyStepbystep/jealousystep.html)

Also, we run many Workshops on the Anatomy Forum where I strongly advise beginners to learn grayscale first. :)

The most recent is this one:

Open Figure Drawing Workshop - William Bouguereau Master Copy - with Rebeccak 012
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=312150

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak
#9

Beginning with a monochromatic tone at the start is a great method to establish your values at the start and set your color scheme. It doesn’t have to be shades of black & white, but can just as well be a value range of color or greys of a color/colors. Personally, I find many artists who start with grey and then apply final color glazes don’t vary the colors enough so that the result looks tinted and less interesting.

-DBC

#10

That tinted look is the biggest danger with the grayscale-to-color method. I need to practice getting that right more.

#11

I think there’s a huge risk in workflow if you put too much definition in a style that is not like the final product. You end up putting most of your definition in the earlier style.

I’m an amateur, but still, I tend to go from line to shapes, sometimes with color:

[ul]
[li]If I put too much detail in line, when I add value to big shapes the whole image changes. Some detail starts looking muddy and the whole thing requires rework and usually starts sucking.[/li][li]If I put too much time in on monochromatic work, I never move to big contrasts by saturation and hue.[/li]
[/ul]I always fall into the trap of losing energy trying to stick to a process. Simplifying things only makes sense if you don’t understand what the image needs. (Of course, “understanding” is really sensitivity which is a skill developed over a long period of time.)

#12

As Rebecca pointed out, applying colour over a monochromatic underpainting is not cheating (how do you cheat at something that doesn’t have a rulebook anyway?) it is a traditional painters technique that dates back many hundreds of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grisaille
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdaccio

-Steve

#13

I go with color from the very beginning
If is painting, with oil or acrylic, I usually make sketches. Lots of them, all Pencil or charcoal based.
If I do anything digital, i do the same, but I still keep one correction layer, wich ,makes everything black and white. So I have basically a witch to grayscale and color, checking things as I work…

#14

I think Rebeccas answer says it best!

painting in monochrome is very important — too many people dont give value painting the respect it deserves — you always see paintings these days that have nice color but the form doesnt read at all — understanding value and its relationship to light are your first ports of call. Theres a great chapter on this in “Creative Illustration” By Andrew Loomis. I would advise that you master modelling form with value first — then once you have found that you can show somethings form with value-- then you can start to introduce color. But this takes quite a time ---- plus there are additional complications attached to advanced underpainting methods - as dbclemons said.

I think that if you got some charcoal and did some value studies of simple stuff that would save you a lot of headaches in the future. We can talk all day about technical stuff - starting your painting in monochrome will only help if you have first an understanding of value.

Hope that helps and I havent babbled on.

ta

#15

A lot of times I’ve started out with a value study first, with color layers on top with different blend modes. The really important bit comes after this:

Don’t stop there.

Once you’ve thrown your colors down, refine with a regular layer (I usually flatten the whole thing at this point, and paint on top, either on a separate layer, or directly onto the main layer). Refine, refine, refine. Barring some really early stuff, I don’t think I’ve ever called a piece finished after simply colorizing a greyscale piece. It just never looks “right”. Most times, a colorized greyscale piece will look like just that: a colorized greyscale.

#16

Im a traditionnal painter, and i usually sketch the basic in monotonous color, study the light and value, dont worry much about the details, then i use colors. If i was to work on greyscale on all the details and then add an overlay of color, it seems dull and less vibrant…thats just me.

#17

You know what - It has never occured to me to work monocrome first. I will have to try it and see if my digital painting improves

#18

Good point

I guess I feel it’s cheating because painting in colour first can sometimes be difficult, where as when you paint in grayscale it’s easier getting the forms, and then when transfering to colour you can just use photoshop’s tools to change the grays to colour. so in a way I guess it’s easier to use colour, by changing the ‘hue and saturation’ instead of working the colours our for yourself. It just feels photoshop is changing the colours for you.

Although saying that photoshop does all the work isn’t really true. I use the hue and saturation to get the base colours and then I work on top adding more colour variation, otherwise, it just looks like it’s been colourized as LoTekK said.

I guess it just depends on the method of how you transfer to colour.

Rebeccak: Thanks for posting that, I never knew most renaissance artists painted that way. Makes me feel better about using the grayscale method. :smiley:

#19

First I’ll say that my education and work backround are primarily in industrial design. I really didn’t take much in the way of “traditional” painting/illustration classes. That said, the one method that stood out for many of us was to do color comps before working on the final rendering. You work everything out in thumbnail form (Basic colors, values, etc) and used that as your guide when doing the final. Prior to that, we might use pencil sketches for value and compositional studies… but once the final was begun, it was always direct to color.

However, I do see the value (No pun intended… Hehe…) of working first in values then adding color. Just don’t expect me to do it unless it’s a monochrome study.

#20

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.