Dicecting Martin Krol's Methods for Wings

#10

Whoops,
Looking at all the pages I was working on yesterday, I realized that I didn’t have the third step in the tutorial linked to the previous pages.

This has been corrected.

For those that already looked, you can skip ahead to three/Step Three/Frame Three: The biggish page.

http://www.geocities.com/n2geoff/wings3d/demon/mkd03.html

It might also be prevy to note that STEP ONE was only a demo of the conventions to be used in the tutorial, and STEP TWO was breaking down elementy fundamentals for New Wings Users, the methods may be a little longer, but do have a reason and should build; digging progressively into Wings3D functions.

Again, sorry for the navagation mixup - this is still a WIP SITE/Tutorial.

oh, and the AutoUV Tutorial was corrected as well:
http://www.geocities.com/n2geoff/wings3d/uv/uvMain.html

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#11

Quick question,for step 13,14 and 15,
why not just select both edges and collapse?
That’d do what you want (welding the verts at the ends of the edges,
in one step.

#12

I didn’t realize that would work!

I had tried the collapse trick earlier when playing with the methods I was going to use in creating this tutorial and it DID NOT WORK, so I skipped that method, however IT DOES WORK great here!, So I added it!

I’ll make my modifications tonight.

Thanx.

BTW. I have saved all my steps in seperate wings files just for this purpose, to go back and make quick adjusments.

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#13

if you would look at the part where he cuts the demon in half later on you would realize how far off you are. and how many unnecessary steps you have done already for your notorious “frame 3”

go back and do what egyt said. its correct and far simpler.

#14

Good to go.

http://www.geocities.com/n2geoff/wings3d/demon/mkd03.html

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#15

What is seen on this last page is not in Martin’s Video.

It’s simply a series of extrudes and moves,that’s it.

Check the first 10 seconds of my video,I do it like him.

http://www.geocities.com/nendo_tsukuri/

EDIT:garh!Never had that geocities bug/feature.

[I]The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information.

Access to this site will be restored within an hour. Please try again later
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#16

it should look something like this. as you can see perspective view AND also side view. there is no mirai magic happening at this point.

to arrive at this point…
FOLLOW EGYTS ADVICE.

#17

Exactly Stimpy,that’s how it simply happens.

You can also see Laa-Yosh do it too on his SubDiv Ressource page.

#18

StephanD:
What is seen on this last page is not in Martin’s Video.

Correct, it was my interpatation of methods that could be used in Wings3D to get to the desired effect - in the larger picture.

Let me better explain.

  • First, I’ve never used Mirai.
  • Second, alot is happening in the video in the first 28 seconds, and in that 28 seconds NO mouse, no highlight or any popup menus are shown, and in that 28 seconds he has a roughted out humanoid form.
  • Third, this is a learning experience all around.
  • Forth, and the rest, is based on assumptions, and at this point they seem to be off/wrong, however the end result is the same/similar. I am looking alittle bit ahead and taking steps to be farther along in the long run.

Stimpy:
as you can see perspective view AND also side view. there is no mirai magic happening at this point.

Thanks for the pics. I’m sure you can see that I misread the outline of the model (from the front). From your picture I thought the Highlighted area was Flat on the Y axis. A fault of an under trained eye seeing from only one angle.

However (on both comments), the effect is going to come out the same. Step three could be bypassed (NOTE: Adjustsments have been made to Step two and Step three pages, and I am refering to those, not previous versions), but I think doing it this way shows more Wings Features, even though they are not needed here.

Stimpy:
if you would look at the part where he cuts the demon in half later on you would realize how far off you are.

Here’s how I’m looking at this:
Later in the video when we see the Demon’s back the Edges are added, with the used method the edges are already there, and you learn an alternative Wings3D’s features to-boot.

I do suspect I’ll make the final version of this tutoral short and simple, and remove any unneeded steps maybe alternates version, One to learn Wings and one to mimic, but for now I’ll leave it as is.

I do appreachate the feedback though. Keep me in check.

@StephanD, do you have a link to this Laa-Yosh SubDiv Ressource page you mentioned? I’m thinking it is some place on Spiraloid?

Last note: I have went back and made corrections to all my posts in this thread…hopefully they are less contradicting when read as a whole now.

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#19

http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/

#20

One sugestion:

You can simplify the first 4 steps
1: Select a vertical Edge.
2: Edge Ring [ G ]
3: Select one top horizontal Edge.
4: Select Face Mode [ F ]

into 2 steps:
1: select top face
2: Select Face [ F ]

as it selects all faces connected to your current selection (even if it is already just faces).

Hope this is of some help.

Best regards.

#21

JPGargoyle:
You can simplify the first 4 steps… …into 2 steps

Will adjust. Thanx.

Here’s the short/redone version (WIP):
http://www.geocities.com/n2geoff/wings3d/wip/mkt.html

You guys will probally like it this way better.

@StephanD, thanx for the link.

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#22

Are you a complete newbie to 3d? Or are you making this for complete newbies? If not, I see this a waste of time? No real use of breaking down someone else workflow bit by bit. Better to just follow it roughly and come up with your own way. You would be faster doing things the way you feel like doing them ; instead of copying someone’s procedure exactly. Plus, it seems to me you have wasted weeks trying to figure out one tiny insignificant step… sorry for being harsh.

#23

Are you a complete newbie to 3d? Or are you making this for complete newbies? If not, I see this a waste of time? No real use of breaking down someone else workflow bit by bit. Better to just follow it roughly and come up with your own way. You would be faster doing things the way you feel like doing them ; instead of copying someone’s procedure exactly. Plus, it seems to me you have wasted weeks trying to figure out one tiny insignificant step… sorry for being harsh.

Idea’s behind this project was like five fold:

1: Create more Wings Specific tutorials.
2: Provide fucntions that most Newbies look over or ask on the forms a dozen times.
3: Actively develop this tutorial with Wings input - to knock out some of the best undocumented ideas.
4: ReFamiliarize myself with Wings.
5: Work on creating a Wings Website; play with layout to se what is most effective - apparently this is not working!

When it comes to modeling I’m not a newbie, but I am a beginner.

Plus, it seems to me you have wasted weeks trying to figure out one tiny insignificant step… sorry for being harsh

A Little time playing with the tutorial/walk-through, but no more than an hour a day towards may different facets: modeling, Website, reading/responding to forums, ect. That imfamous step was an error on my eyes part. I had done it many ways, and misread the outline on the video.

Not harsh, just your opinion. It happens when somebody just jumps out of the Wings scene for 3-4 monts then just pops back in.

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#24

Provide fucntions that most Newbies look over or ask on the forms a dozen times

I partly agree with you,beginners do complicate things a bit,but nevertheless,Martin uses a minimalist approach,using mostly Extrude,Bevel,Cut and Dissolve which is what people should focus on imo.

It’s ok to have additional Wings3D specific material but there’s already much information covering box modeling and I don’t know a polygon-based application from which Wings3D cannot apply methods.

#25

StephanD:
Martin uses a minimalist approach,using mostly Extrude,Bevel,Cut and Dissolve which is what people should focus on imo.

More and more, I’m agreeing with this. I have corrected all the pages reguarding the dissectiong tutorial to show this now, and abandon the other methods. I have found, after creating the final result a few times other places that some methods would be a speed improvement - those are not up yet.

Most box modeling methods would apply over to wings, but I think it would be nice to see it actually being done in wings rather than some other program.

It’s like saying, “Yeah you can do this in Wings, but I did thid in Maya, Cinema4D, XSI, ect…”

How about “You can do this in Wings, this is how I did it in Wings.”?

Maybe just something different, and not based on others?

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#26

I don’t see the difficulty of that section. The shoulder is just an extrude. then the bottom ouside edge is just moved in and the upper one moved down? I don’t see the logic of removing an edge to just put it back when 2 seconds of tweaking would do the same thing. I may be missing something but there really isn’t any magic formula to what he is doing. He just visualizes where the anatomy should be or where he needs to go next and moves edges to be where they need to be. Most of it is extrudes and tweaking with some magnets moves thrown in.

If you are going to show how it should be done in wings you should add in loopcut and virtual mirror right at the beginning.

I don’t see any reason not to learn this way. You’ll learn the tools and the workflow which is just as important. I’m sure once you master the first 28 seconds of this you’ll get a better understanding of the rest of that video.

Jay

#27

If you are going to show how it should be done in wings you should add in loopcut and virtual mirror right at the beginning

You’re absolutely right and an even faster method is you just select the side of your cube and use the VM to get started right away.

#28

If you are going to show how it should be done in wings you should add in loopcut and virtual mirror right at the beginning.

Virtual mirror will show up soon!

The reason is isn’t there now is because I didn’t want the screen to busy when I show full screens. Just the area being worked on.

The shoulder is just an extrude. then the bottom ouside edge is just moved in and the upper one moved down? I don’t see the logic of removing an edge to just put it back when 2 seconds of tweaking would do the same thing.

Its incomplete. I’ll put the rest of that stage up in a day or so, if you feel the same way I may adjust.

I’m sure once you master the first 28 seconds of this you’ll get a better understanding of the rest of that video.

That’s part of the idea.

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#29

Wow, talk about making a mound out of a mole hill…sorry mate but you are over thinking it. KISS is always the way to go. The only things he is doing is extruding, moving, and a combo of multi-cutting edgegroups and an edgeloop bevel here and there. There is also a slide too. Some egde scaling…which may look like he is moving faces or even rotating edgeloops…but its just a group of edges scaled. The first operation is a perfect example. he is not moving faces but selecting the cubes vertical edge group and scaling it. While the group is still selected, all you do is hotkey 3 (to cut the edges in three groups in wings) and C to connect them. He then takes the top edgeloop and bevels it. See?..Thats it.

You HAVE to know this, coming from the man himself…there are ALOT of frames showing operation deleted. Also, it is obviously recording one viewport only. he does not work like that.