Darktree Plugin for messiah:studio 2.0


#1

I’ve been working on a Darktree textures plugin for messiah:studio. I’ve three requests for the community of Darktree/messiah users:

[ol]
[li]I need some Darktrees to test out the plugin. Specifically Darktrees that use tweaks of types mapping, boolean, string, and sampling. I unfortunately don’t own Darktree 2, just Darktree 1, so I can’t make Darktrees with tweaks.
[/li][li]I’d like some other people to help test it out and tell me where the problems are. I figure getting other people who are willing to test it will find problem areas quicker. It also helps me not get bogged down in minor areas while neglecting the more important.
[/li][li]I’d like to release the code as open source. So I’d like a place to host it that has some sort of management capabilities. I could place the code on my site, but that doesn’t facilitate bug reports, check-ins/outs, … . I could check out Sourceforge, but I think DarkSim or pmG are the places people normally go looking for the plugin. Hosting or a link from there would be great.
[/li][/ol]
In any event, I’ve placed the plug-in at http://danielstewart1.home.comcast.net/darktree.htm for anyone interested in checking out a beta copy. Feel free to email me with questions/problems at mpc823_99 (at) yahoo.com.

Daniel Stewart


#2

Wow, what good news! I have DT 2.5 and would love to be of assistance. I believe Wegg is an avid DT user as well. Looking forward to testing it out. :slight_smile:


#3

Chikega,

If you download it and tell me what needs to be improved, that’d be great. I don’t even know if it will install correctly on other machines. (It’s easy to get it working on my machine, but once that first step of trying to get it working on other machines is tried, there’s always something weird that happens. :sad: )

If you could try saving/loading Darktree’s of different types, that’d be great. I was never able to even try saving/loading Darktrees that have tweak types of boolean, mapping, sampling, and strings. They should work though.

I’m still not convinced that it nearly as fast as Darksim’s own plugins. Don’t know if that’s my coding, or how messiah calls shaders.

Please let me know of any problems. Those helping with a first release always have the hardest road.

Daniel


#4

I’ve got DT 2.5 and would be willing to help by providing some trees and doing some testing as well.

My ISP gives me a very small amount of space for web/file hosting, so I can’t be of any help there.

I do wonder if CVS might be a workable approach for the source control.

Finally, My talents are really more in the realm of scripting/programming than in animation (RATS!!), so I could contibute to the programming efforts.


#5

I just noticed as I was going to go get the plugin that the download link is broken.


#6

Great! Look forward to hearing what the problems are

My ISP gives me a very small amount of space for web/file hosting, so I can’t be of any help there.

Same here.

I do wonder if CVS might be a workable approach for the source control.

I heard from August Swanson and there may be a way to do some non-CVS hosting by Darksim. We’ll have to see what happens there.

Finally, My talents are really more in the real of scripting/programming than in animation (RATS!!), so I could contibute to the programming efforts.

Ha ha! Sounds like me! I wish I was more talented in the artistic side :arteest: but, alas, I am wired to be a logical, computer geek.:cry:


#7

Fixed. Try again. Sorry. Was working before, but I updated a page and lost it.


#8

Hi Daniel,

your plugin is working cool here, although I also get quite slow renderspeed and don’t know what to do with a lot of the outputs :slight_smile:

The coolest thing would be, to have a Simbiont-Shader like in LW that delivers a complete shading solution to the radiance input of the custom shader. Otherwise you are basically droping one node-based-system on another, which can’t be fast in the end. Also, a lot of the cool stuff in Darktree isn’t usable, anisotropy for instance.

But I remember you said that this isn’t possible with the current Darktree SDK?

Maybe Darksim would be interested to build on your code and make it a full “Simbiont”?

Interesting that your plugin shows the same problem with multiple threads when you use a lot of the outputs at once. As I have written on the developer list, the “FX_OUTPUT_REQUEST” seems not to be threadsafe. I had to deactivate it completely for my shaders.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


#9

Me neither! :slight_smile: I do realize it is still slow, but I agree that it is because of the layering one node based system on another.

The coolest thing would be, to have a Simbiont-Shader like in LW that delivers a complete shading solution to the radiance input of the custom shader. Otherwise you are basically droping one node-based-system on another, which can’t be fast in the end. Also, a lot of the cool stuff in Darktree isn’t usable, anisotropy for instance.

But I remember you said that this isn’t possible with the current Darktree SDK?

Maybe Darksim would be interested to build on your code and make it a full “Simbiont”?

The current DarkTree SDK only provides the values for each individual component of the Darktree. This is exactly what you see on the output nodes of the shader. Combining them into a completely shaded output would be great. I’d do it myself if I knew how to properly combine everything. Alas, I do not.

Part of the reason for making the code open source is that perhaps the guys at Darksim can add that functionality (or someone else) or tell me how to do it. Since I’ve already written all the I/O parts, all someone has to concentrate on is the shader part itself. They probably can’t support a full release version, but an open source version requires less support and I’ve already done most of the work for it.

Interesting that your plugin shows the same problem with multiple threads when you use a lot of the outputs at once. As I have written on the developer list, the “FX_OUTPUT_REQUEST” seems not to be threadsafe. I had to deactivate it completely for my shaders.

I haven’t noticed that. I’ll look into it. Disabling the FX_OUTPUT_REQUEST will really slow things down, as then each node has to be calculated each time. Not good.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

Thanks. Hopefully the plugin will improve. The most needed part is the shaded output.

Daniel


#10

U DT users post pics when things get farther along.


#11

You don’t need Darktree(the commercial software) to use the plugin, just download all the darktree shaders from the darksim website and load those into the plugin.


#12

I believe somewhere during last night/today I inadvertantly put up an older version of the plugin on my site. I’ve fixed it. If your version doesn’t say 0.8 (from the About Box), you’ve got the wrong one.

Sorry for the confusion. :sad:

Daniel


#13

This is my first test with the darktree plugin. First I did the still then I did an animation of Butch to make sure he didn’t “swim” through the texture. Looks fine, next step to try some tweaks (or whatever Daniel might suggest).

I’ll attach the animation as well.

Note as Thomas mentioned you don’t have to have darktree to use darktree textures, you only need that if you want to make textures from scratch. The darksim web site has hundreds of premade textures you can freely download. In this case I used one of those downloaded textures called “bioHeartMuscle”


#14

Now the animation:

EDIT: having some trouble getting the animation to upload… trying again

http://users.adelphia.net/~cwardin/graphics/butch_tree.avi


#15

Looking good so far.See if you can get this one to render

There are two tweaks. The edge and the middle colors.

Baby steps. :slight_smile:


#16

The animation looks good. Now I realize you don’t want it to swim through the texture, but if you did - try turning world coordinates on. :slight_smile:

If you could post your system and render times, that’d be great as well. Then I can get a sense of how slow the system is. Since I developed it on a 400MHz PIII, my tests are really slow!

Thanks for checking it out. You may also want to save/load files with the tweaks modified to make sure it remembers the values ok.


#17

I tried the shader Wegg posted. I get only the middle color, the edge color isn’t appearing. I may take a look in darktree to see exactly how it is set up, but from the picture is seems pretty obvious.

I’ll do some time tests later (and compare to some native messiah shaders) and post.


#18

Yea I thought that’d stump ya. In my previous tests of the plugin that was the first thing I noticed was missing. Almost all of my Darktrees rely on the ability to adjust the texture based on it’s orientation to the camera. Without that. . . its pretty much just a coloring tool.


#19

I’ll have to look at Wegg’s Darktree later this evening or this weekend. I assume the problem is the incident angle is not appearing correctly to the Darktree shader. I know I modify the incident angle value, but perhaps I’m not doing everything right. :shrug:It’s good information to have, however. I’ll look into the code.

[Added] Ah. Orientation to the camera, not light incident angle. That’s different. If you could try a shader with light incidence, that’d be helpful. I’m at work (doing engineering, not animation :sad: ) and can’t look at anything right now.

[Added] I looked at some code I have here, and indeed it appears I’m using the camera incident angle. I’ll have to check it out more thoroughly later. Lunch is over…


#20

There is no light incident angle option in Darktree. It has always been a camera only thing. I could think of many uses for a light incident but. . . it isn’t there so I’ll live without it.