creative block or a brain freeze


hell-o, can you shed your opinions and some light on a problem that’s been nagging me for a while… here’s the problem, I want to model a gun doesn’t matter what kind it’s always at the same point I get stuck…

here’s my dilema

Let’s say I want to make a shotgun for my model to hold, I begin with my basic shape (rectangle) and begin shaping my weapon. I add geometry as needed to get my basic form.

When it boils down to details like the finger grips on the pump end of it and build a ring for the strap I find myself fighting against my own will to sub-patch it and modify it some more…

I think my problem stems from, if you look at the shoulder stock (or whatever you call it) you would use subpatch to get the organic shape of that wooden stock… at the the part where it rests on the shoulder it’s a very smooth concaved surface, using subpatch on it makes it bubble out, I could right click smooth shift once on it and modify it but I still don’t get a “clean” edge on it ?

sub-patch works great but the model no longer looks like I want it so I go and push/pull points around, and then realize "dammit !!! that part shouldn’t be smooth, so I highlight the piece to change and remove subpatch from it, then it leaves gaps between the pieces, then I feel a tear coming to my eye, my blood pressure rises than I tear off my shirt and run around the house screaming wildly at my girlfriends cat and find comfort and relief chasing kitty around the house :wink:

it happens everytime I model something like that, is it just me that isn’t happy with the model ? or do you think I’m going about it the wrong way and shouldn’t be using sub-patch, or use subpatch for certain surfaces not for others…

If you think you know what I’m talking about and could shed some light on this for me I would be forever in your debt, it seems learning some things at school have hindered my way of approaching things…
many thanks

and uhh “kitty” thanks you too :wink:



I’ve never tried anything like that and suck at organic modelling, but I would be tempted to use splines.

If you use sub-patch, you just want to make sure you have plenty of points to work with and use weight maps to get your sharp edges. Model it roughly with non-patched polys, make sure the surface is concave. If it bubbles out, adjust the control points to keep it concave.


splines :lightbulb ! holy jeez, that’s what they mean by stop a minute and take a look around or you’ll miss it!

Thanks MattClarry, I think you might have solved my problem ! :thumbsup:



you can mix subpatch and polygon stuff. when you select some polys and hit the TAB key you get these holes. so you just have to select all the points that are shared between the subpached polys and the normal poly. then you choose “subpatch weight” in the buttom right of modeler and put up the value in “set map value” to 100%. then the holes are gone. but I must confess that this method is not suitable for all kinds of situations.



Thank you too jabbermike, that sounds it’ll do the trick ! I’ll try that one out tonight see how it works out.:thumbsup:




Can’t you also just select the polys that you want the sharp edges on, Ctl-x to cut them and then paste them right back in?

Or am I thinking of something else? :slight_smile:


That method never works for me, as I merge points quite often.


thanks fongool, I did try that and like MattClarry mentions it snags when I merge points unfourtunately, but at first it did seem like that’s what I had to do, the cut and paste it back was really getting weird after trying it on different parts I don’t even want to go into detail with that one lol :wink: (poor cat hasn’t slept since.)



There’s no reason you couldn’t keep the whole thing as subpatch if you wanted to. Just make sure that in the places where you need sharp corners you add enough geometry to keep your subpatch points relatively close together. This way you get a sharp edge, but it’s not razor sharp. There are many tools that can help you do this…Knife, Bandsaw, Ikeda’s Cut/Quick Cut, etc.

I also generally prefer not to use subpatch weights for the simple reason that by weighting a point, it influences every edge adjoined to that point, which most of the time is undesirable. This is where edge weighting, not point weighting would be handy…but that’s a whole other discussion… :smiley:


maybe you find this interessing:



You guys ROCK:buttrock: !!!

Thank you all so much, I’m totally overwhelmed… who needs school when you get your lessons from you guys ! everyone has really put alot thought into their answers and believe me when I say it really is helping me out! Triple G thanks for your confidence I’ll keep pushing things into shape. Jabbermike thanks for the link, that’ll come in handy for sure !


If you wanted to be superlazy like me, you could just do it all with SubD’s and then use the SubD Weight map to control the smoothness.


Merge will leave overlapping points alone if it sees an Endomorph pull them apart. If I cut/paste geometry to sharpen my subD’s, I often create an Endomoph called “Junk” that grabs the cut geometry and moves it away from its original position. That way those points are protected from a Merge operation.


that´s a simple and good one! :applause:



:eek: so many tips, so many tricks… warning information overload, system malfunction… “woop” “woop”… thanks again people!
Fungusmonkey I tried your way :wink: me likey alot ! it worked great when I made a really quick MAC-10 last night trying different approaches. I learned alot more since I asked for help really I’m a lot more confident now ! YAY!!!
Kisses and Hugs for everyone ! :scream:


Celshader that’s a really interesting one you came up with there, not 100% sure I understand how it works, but I’ve got all weekend to try all these ideas!


Thanks, Jen! Never used endomorphs before, but when I need this again, I’ll rememeber it.


This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.