Considering purchasing Vue xStream 7.0 (7.5)

#40

It seems like Vue does the same mistake as Maya in the early days, by for the most part looking at the larger studios and forgetting that the industry mainly consist of small companies with no resources to hire programmers to make the software-integrations work. When I became a Maya Beta-tester my first feedback was: “The Maya render-engine is nowhere close to the A|W Power Animator’s render in terms of quality and stability. The Maya render must be an improvement to the render it replaces!”. The response was that if I wanted render quality I could buy Renderman… As if I could afford that! It took a few years before they finally made a deal with Mental Ray. They should have done that in the very beginning.

#41

DONT.

Regards,
Mike

#42

Is there ANYONE that has successfully integrated xStream with Max, Maya or C4d?

Thanks,
David

#43

We have done 1 complete project using Vue/Max. We tried many times on others. IMHO, in production the only thing Vue is great at is matte painting work. Now we did do some projects using Vue in stand-alone and Maya. All elements were then comped for the final shots. An example of this is on my portfolio page. As far as integration between Max and Maya and Vue… Just to un-predictable. I think using the demo of vue for while would be wise before purchasing it.

http://mikebracken.cgsociety.org/gallery/761607/

Regards,
Mike

#44

Here’s one example of someone successfully using Max and xStream.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=162&t=729224

Seems a positive experience. I wish I could say the same for Vue & Maya.

#45

Okay, I havent read much of this thread, but I am assuming you havent made a purchase yet, as 7.5 is not released. So i will address this post as if you havent.

Dont buy 7.5 if you already have 6 or another version. Vue 8 will be right on that releases heels. I am still using 6 xStream and likekly will not even consider upgrading until at least 8. They are peddling the minor releases at this point as majors ones, but mostly they are just bug fixes. If you do decide to by 7.5 make sure and get the maitnence plan as I think E-On has garrunteed the upgrade to 8.

I use Vue inside of Max daily, and have absolutely no complaints. There are a few renders in my portfolio and more to come. But my environment for the FXwars this month is made entirely in Vue 6 xStream inside Max 2009. I rarely use Vue as a stand alone anymore unless I am messing aroung the the 7 PLE. But anyhow, I dont care what anyone says, Vue xStream is amazing if you know how to work aroung the minor bugs.

That is just my two cents.

  • Evan
#46

I had seen that thread, but couldn’t see where he was using xStream. Vue and Max, butnot xStream (at least from what I could see).

Evan, you are the first one I have found that is using xStream inside Max that doesnt hate it. Do you follow any particular methodolgy to maintain stability? I have never hear the bugs were minor, usually just the opposite…

All the E-on products I have tested are just buggy. We have 7.0 PLE but have yet to install it. What are your render times like?

Thanks for the feedback…

David

#47

Hey Dustin,

Yeah, it bugs me sometimes because everyone always gets down on E-On for having bad software, but alot of the times the same people dont understand that normal production settings dont apply when using one app inside of another.

One things that I always keep in mind is that this is two entirely different applications, the one working inside the other one. Max being the MAIN app, and Vue acting as the plugin. Therefore I do as little in the Vue interface as I can. If you keep that in mind, most of the crashes you will see are not in fact bugs, just errors that are the fault of the user.

I personally am not a big fan of the Vue 7 workflow, but that is only because I am used to 6. It is just confusing fore me to have all of the Vue options in a little flyout menu, but honestly it cuts down on the switching back and forth and the crashes when I forget the crucial fact I mentioned above.

Render times all depend on mainly your atmosphere. Considering what I sometimes render, it amazes me the speed that Mental Ray (usually very slow with volumetrics) renders complicated scenes. Meta clouds seem to be amone the slowest things to render, but that isnt Vue’s fault, it is Mental Ray’s.

I have used Vue xStream to do HUGE environments and have never encountered the “bugs” that most people always complain about. I have discussed this stuff on the E-On registered users forum too, but nobody can admit that the problems they run into are either corrupted windows installs, Max installs, or just there own impatience and errors.

Anyway, if you ever need any help with the workflow just ask.

  • Evan
#48

Are you doing stills or animation ? In my experience stills are not the problem with xstream. But animation is. Rendertimes are terribly long to get trees to stop flickering, even without any fancy skies or vols. I can use particle flow and multisub mats and maps to place thousands of random (scale/rotation/material) proxy trees around the scene in just a few minutes, and even with transparent/translucent leaves, rendertimes for 1280x720 animations are around 20 minutes/frame with MR. Also, I do not like the way that the Vue trees look when up close to the camera. They just dont hold up. They do look alright from a far distance, but not up close. Especially compared to EM or Onyx trees. And with Onyx you get wind animation.

IMHO, if you are going to do heavy Veg “animations” in Max, you are better off just using proxy trees/bushes/flowers instead. They will look better and render ALOT faster. I dont just say this from reading forums. We have had Vue xstream since version 6, and have only been able to use it successfully on 1 project. And this was mostly because we had no real deadline.

Here is a frame from a first draft animation that I am currecntly working on. It isnt that great, I know, but the trees are animated, and the rendertimes without flicker are about 20 minutes/frame. The Veg in this file is still just instanced, not proxy, and there will be about 10 times as much as there is now when the finals are run. And there is no variation applied to the materials yet.

This image is not going to wow anyone, its just to give an example of what is very easily done in Max without Vue for animation.

Let me say lastly, that the only real way to find out for sure if Vue is going to be good for your particular pipeline, be it stills or animation, is try the demo for a while. I always take into account what others have to say about software, but I always try for myself to be sure.

Regards,
Mike

BTW, nice pod racer you got there Evan. It looks really cool.

#49

BTW…here is the same Veg upclose…

Regards,
Mike

#50

Mike,

For what I do, that style would be perfect.
Are those onyx trees? If so is that Treestorm?

I have looked at purchasing it just for the animation capabilities of it.

Thanks,
David

#51

DDustin,
max 2010 and Exstream 7.5 is working great for us. I would not try to play in VUE if you are in 32 bit or a Mac users. If you get into subscription you will get your hands on the pre release 7.5. Wow!
I am on subscription with VUE because I am not going anywhere I love this program.
VUE works great through back burner as well.
Just keep in mind VUE wants 64bit power house systems.

#52

Jack,

Great to hear from you again!

What are your render times like?
Any images you can share?

David

#53

Hi Jack,
thanks for the info! Great to know that 7.5 is working well.

Do you use VRay or Mental Ray ?

How is License Server with rendernodes and Backburner working together ?

Best,
Martin

#54

It was great talking to you ya best of luck.

#55

I would stay away from Vue 7.5 xStream. My opinion…this software is BETA! Many Bugs, many crashes, does not perform as advertised, no phone support (unless you pay). support is pretty much useless until they release an update and so far there are none. This is my own experience and what I’ve heard from others.

.

#56

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner but I did not get a email saying anyone responded in this thread until today.

here is a link to a test render i did using max 2010 and mental ray with vue 7.5. I had no issues at all with this shot.
I rendered with a setting of medium in mental ray.
This was rendered out on a render farm with Boxx system render nodes through backburner and it render out at 6 minutes a frame with a with a aspec of 1024x544

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaqvZhXxp-M

#57

http://www.3dm3.com/video/2009/04/10/realtimeuk-stormbirds/

you must have seen this a while back? these guys used max and vue and use vray, obviously it works! theres plenty of vue and maya/max in movies like pirates of the carribean etc.
they’re all using the same software as the rest of you (that are complaining) maybe just a little more experience and care goes a long way.
build scenes in layers, use compositing for bigger shots, etc etc.
Im using max and vue 7 on a project right now and havent had problems so far…

www.chrisdebney.com

#58

Vue is a sloppy, broken, damaged mess of a plug-in for Maya. I’ve seen plenty of examples of it working in Max, but not one decent example of it working for Maya.

And in the end, Vue is a sloppy workaround for Maya users really. Everything Vue can do, Maya can also do, only better (physical accuracy, photons, importons, irradiance particles…) Vue’s a great standalone app, albeit still VERY buggy and fickle. But Vue’s lighting model is even outdated; you’ll never get the same results you would achieve from a strategic use of Maya and mental ray.

I agree: Vue Xstream should have stayed in Beta. Even the 64-bit version with loads of RAM and wicked-fast CPU’s is unstable, at best. As if Maya weren’t buggy enough…

#59

yeah dam all the software companies, I’m not buying anything until EVERYONE can animate and render using telepathy…

www.chrisdebney.com