Character: Sandtrooper


#21

Hey if they want some learning experience I got a million things you could model, hehehehe!!! I’m working on an independent film and can only find a few to help. And then I see so many people with this guys talent doing Star Wars, I don’t know I guess I get jealous of Lucas, I mean he has billions, his story is being told, and I’m still trying to tell mine and have no money to pay people.

I guess the reason I bitched a little on this one is the guy is so talented and did a great job and he chose Star Wars. To each there own. If you want to work on a real project check out the collab section, their are a few guys their that you could find some practice models to work on!!

Again great, great work!!! I love Star Wars too.

I give it :thumbsup: :thumbsup: and if I had more than two thumbs you’d get another :thumbsup:


#22

Originally posted by SCIFI_3D_zoo
A good artist spends almost all of his time recreating existing things.

Yes, but when you send a reel with this on it into ILM or other similar level place, they’ll say “Oh look, ANOTHER Stormtrooper.”

You have great skill, but I have to say that I can see why some of the other posters are saying that it would be great to see the same skill applied to something new.

The Sandtrooper kicks much ass though!!


#23

As far as employers go I don’t think they care. Nobody wants to see space shots with little to no lighting and an Enterprise with lens flares. But other than that very little has to be original. It’s all about showing your skill. You want to show character modelling and texturing it can be anything. Why not use something pre-existing? I think somebody at ILM would be very impressed with this. Everybody has all of this in their portfolio’s:
cars, buildings, general objects to show skill with diff. materials like glass/chrome/etc. None of this is really original. So I don’t think it’s right to bag somebody b/c of this.

JJ is doing this for an animation project… SON OF THE SUNS. Visit SCIFI 3D animations section for some trailers. Actually JJ has had alot of these models for quite awhile and just wants to finish them off. And I’d say at least one of these will be in his portfolio b/c it’s very good. It demonstrates alot of skill. And that’s what an employer wants to see. All you need is one thing to show your imagination and originalness too.

Sorry you guys wish JJ was making something for your project. This stuff is VERY time consuming we all know. And most of these guys have jobs, full-time students, etc. People asked JJ to post his Sandtrooper when it was ready. It’s just a mod of the stormtrooper. WE’re making “white” and “black” cauldrons too.

I’m senstive about people bagging others for doing this sorta work. Not you guys, but some have outright discouraged and harrassed others about doing Star Wars stuff. SCIFI 3D survives off of doing this stuff so I don’t like to hear this. We do everything tv/film tho. And some original stuff like THE HUNT. We have a pretty big MISC. SCIFI section. Aliens, Predator, Blade, Blade Runner, Buck Rogers, etc. I honestly don’t think we should say anything negative or critical about the subject matter tho. Especially if it’s this good and shows alot of skills in texturing and modelling. You guys don’t mean it that way but it can be taken as a negative comment. I think if you feel that way you probably shouldn’t go into that thread and say anything about it. :thumbsup:


#24

Originally posted by Floyd Bishop
Yes, but when you send a reel with this on it into ILM or other similar level place, they’ll say “Oh look, ANOTHER Stormtrooper.”

As far as originality goes, well not all modeling jobs require someone to be designers as well… I suspect modelers at ILM get fed sketches and drawings from concept artists… really it depends on the employer.
In the end, I think it doesn’t matter what you model, animate, texture, light/render, or whatever so long as you do it well… I think this goes for almost any form of art, not just 3d. The quality will speak for itself, regardless of the concept. I definitely agree tho that a demo reel should be diverse especially if you want it to get past HR people at company X. And the other cool thing about original material is that its yours.

Originally posted by SCIFI_3D_zoo
Nobody wants to see … an Enterprise with lens flares. But other than that very little has to be original.

hey now, dont be knockin Star Trek!!
j/k :airguitar


#25

Originally posted by SubDimension
Forums calling Matt Clark ;D

<waves hand>

This isn’t the Matt Clark you’re looking for. Move on.


#26

What other Matt Clark is there? There’s only one. Is that you?:wavey:

Why don’t you guys vote for this thread. I think it’s nice work. :thumbsup:


#27

Here’s mine :slight_smile:

mine!

:wink: Ok heres the 3d one. WIP of course.

3d 1

3d 2

3d 3


#28

Hey Adam. What have you been up to? I wish you had time to finish up that old battledroid. Maybe turn this into an ATAT driver. Something different. JJ is knocking out the stormtrooper and sandtroopers very quickly. How is life going? What are you working on?


#29

great work!
really amazing:buttrock:


#30

been doing some other things like…

[dragon]](http://www.3dluvr.com/rogueldr/images/dragon_new_maps13.jpg)

As for doing something else, nah i’ll keep working on the trooper slowly hehe. Actually i’m working on it right now.

No offense to JJs trooper, but the helmet is very innacurate shape wise. The armor as well isnt very accurate to shape. I think his texturing and modelling is very good overal, as his is rendering but in terms of coming close to the movie suits shape, i think hes way off.

Thats not to say its bad. I think his pic looks really nice. But the shape of these things are a pain in the butt, and its just not close. Even as good as i feel mine is, i know its not as close as i myself want it. But its closer, and my goal is capture the shape as best as possible. Thats why i burned myself out on the battledroid and slowly burning myself out on the trooper :slight_smile:

As with the battledroid that i never finished :slight_smile: Having as close to the real thing shape wise is very important to me. I saw EP1 13 times, i think i saw it about 3 or so for fun, and the rest to study the battledroid :slight_smile:

Its a personal goal anyways for me, ever since i started 3d many years ago. So i plan to see it through.


#31

awesome model, of course…but i can’t shake the feeling that the helmet kind of looks like its made out of clay, like the edges aren’t sharp enough. And I’ve heard it before, sharp is bad in 3d, bevel edges etc etc, but it looks like its a little too rounded, maybe even lumpy. :surprised

also, its a pauldron, not a cauldron :slight_smile:


#32

Damn you’re right. I did that for a month a long time ago. But it’s been so long since I used that I word I forgot and started saying cauldron again… pauldron pauldron pauldron. I’ll write it a 100 times. Cauldron is what I wanna put myself in and boil for 30 minutes. :beer:

I think the armor lost it’s shiny smooth appearance b/c of a render filter or something. JJ says there is no bump to the dirt maps. He’s not gonna make any more changes. People can download it sometime this month on SCIFI 3D and they can play with it all they want.

And to Adam. Remember there are a bunch of diff. verisons of Vader and the Troopers. JJ is working from a physical reference. He saw that there were diff. versions and decided to just pick one he liked best. On yours you’re doing that “high brow” version. He bought some replica props of helmets so that’s what he’s using. And those are all different too depending on which one you get. But he didn’t get the real cheap cheesey ones. I’ve furnished him with nice ZOO refpacks too.:thumbsup:


#33

JJ may be working of a physical version, but its not the real version used on screen. His helmet somewhat resembles one of the liscenese lucas products or fan sculpts. So it may be based off physical armor, but from what i see… the helmet is most definatly not based off of teh accurate helmet used in the movies. The armor however is quite nice. I was admiring it in 3dsmax when i dl’d his regular trooper.

Here’s a new pic. I’ve re modelled the knee guard on the right leg, adjusted the legs in general, also remodelled the right knee guard as well. Adjusted the upper arm peice, fixed up some of the wrinkles in the shoes you folks pointed out on scifi3d. (i’ll be fixing the belt, and working on finishing the rear armor next.

This picture features my 3d trooper, composited into pics of replica trooper armor cast from the on screen used armor. (although there is some customization and mixed peices of armor there, its genearlly the same. The Helmet is dead on though. Thats a GF helmet cast from a real trooper helmet used in ANH (which is no longer available since Lucas put the boot down:)) Take a look and read onward.

Test_Composite01

Btw the helmet is the only thing mapped in the picture. The dust on the armor is just painted quickly in photoshop to take away that boring unmapped rendered look :slight_smile:

And now…

Time for trooper school :slight_smile:

Here’s the facts. Very abreviated and generalized.

There are various types of fan made armor, but i’m only concerned with screen accurate armor and not fan sculpts and liscensed artist sculpts which dont resemble at all the thing i saw on screen at a very young age.

There are only 3 storm trooper versions you see on screen in the movies. Each one appearing in each film (ANH, ESB, ROTJ). Technically there’s 4, but the 4th variation was the same shape, but made nicer for close ups. I’ll explain more below :slight_smile:

ANH:

There are two versions in this film. They are from the same mold and sculpt. So they have the SAME exact shape. The only difference is flat lenses/bubble lenses and the number of holes on the frown of the helmet.

The two versions are HERO, and STUNT. The Hero helmets, worn by Mark Hamil, and Harrison Ford for closeups, featured bubble lenses and had 6 holes cut in the frown area.

The Stunt helmet… Which is what you see 98% of the time in ANH… has flat lenses, and 8 holes on the frown. Some versions of these helmets, have high brows to add some variation and character.

There is of course the sandtrooper, which is the stunt trooper helmet, plus backpack, pauldron, and sometimes missing a box on the stomach plate. (probably fell off in filming)

ESB:

ESB had same situation as ANH. Stunt helmets, were all reused from ANH. Only difference is they got repainted. The frown was painted all black, where as in ANH they were painted Grey. I beleive the tube decales were of a different color as well.

ROTJ:

ROTJ is where the shape of the helmet was altered. It was sanded down due to it being hard for the the actors to perform in the helmets, due to their bobble head nature and how they would get stuck on the armor as the actor turned his head.

All ROTJ helmets had bubble lenses. There were no flat lenses. The colors helmet decales were different from ESB and ANH.

SW: SE:

The suits were a hack job mix of ROTJ suits and new parts.

With the exception of the ROTJ version of the helmet, ANH and ESB had the same exact shaped helmet. ROTJ’s helmet was based off the same mold as the ANH helmet, but was sanded down a bit like i said, so it appears narrow and odd.

So there are only 2 shapes to the helmets. ANH/ESB and ROTJ.

I’ve gone with the ANH version because i think it means more to me. I think the ROTJ helmet is odd looking.

Here’s a new comparsion pic of a fan based suit cast from ANH screen used armor and my 3D ANH trooper, entirely hand modelled.

Test_Composite01

As you can see, its closer. I’ve even attempted to model in the infamous “eye bump” located on the left eye.

The only problem that may stick out right now when looking at these pics are… The hand armor, and the stomach armor. They VARIED from scene to scene and film to film in star wars. In this shot you can see Jedi and special eddition hand armor. I modelled the ANH hand armor. The box on my chest armor with the 5 black dots… is upside down. It is detachable on the real armor, and was sometimes rotated one way, or the other, and sometimes not even on the armor (some sandtroopers).

I also own two (replica) ANH helmet which were cast from an actual helmet used on screen in ANH (obviously not liscensed by Lucas:) They are the essentially the real thing you see on screen in Star Wars ANH. The shape i’m modelling is based on it. Thus being more accurate. I dont like the don post liscense helmets, or other black market helmets which were artist interperations of the movie helmets. They dont come close to the real shape and form.

As i said earlier… I dont want to take away from JJ’s excellent work and talent. And i dont mean to sound arrogant. I for a long time have been planning on buying trooper armor, and having read up on many of variations and having been instructed on the variations from people who know FAR MORE than I :slight_smile: That i can guarrantee… I’ve learned quite a bit about the trooper on my journey.

And from what i see… JJ’s is not based on the real helmet. But its still a fantastic image. The armor is very well modelled, but the helmet just isnt true to the real prop. This isnt about ego or being better than JJ. Its simply about right and wrong. If the goal is to make something as close to possible as the real thing seen in the movies, then the referenced design is wrong. The artwork is fantastic though. He may be planning to make a fan film, and the only armor he currently has is that helmet version. And is simply making a digital double. If so, his goal is different than mine. I think his model and image very well done. Perhaps our goals are different. Like you said, hes modelling off a physical object, as are I. They’re just different objects hehe… but my point is one, or atleast the helmet is more true to on the screen image in the films. Thats my goal.

Forgive me Zoo if you know all of this. But i figured i’d make my case anyways.

Also i should add that i modelled the helmet in peices, exactly like the original vaccum formed helmet. So you can rotate the cap, and create a high brow helmet very easily, just like the real thing. Thats what you saw in some of the other pictures. This model isnt high brow or low, its capable of being either at anytime.


#34

Hmm… interesting. Now I know why you take years to finish a model. In spite of the fact that you are a busy pro too.

I really can’t tell which is real and which isn’t. Except for the areas you mentioned like the hands. That is an excellent remake. Looks like you are pretty much done… as far as my standards go.

I think JJ could only afford a Riddell helmet… and yes those are not very good. More like toys or something. Would work perfect for any fan film… or even any other use… except for a 2D image posted in a forum where everybody critiques the hell out of it and “EXPERTS” like you note all the inaccuracies.

It comes down to goals I guess. JJ’s goal was probably to just make one based on the best reference he had… and with the small amount of time he’s had. Very few people have the time or desire to go into like you do. In fact, I think you’re a little NUTS. :rolleyes: SCIFI 3D’s goals are quite simple… anything that looks good for potential CGI use. Nobody is gonna notice all these little things in an animation or film. I think that’s why there are so many diff. versions to begin with… ILM didn’t care either. They did whatever was easy to make or easy to use for the wearer. They knew nobody would notice or care watching the film all these subtle differences. But to most of us we are SO familar with these images if something isn’t right… we’ll notice. So I think it’s MORE than close enough for anybody.

It’s a double-edge sword sometimes. We need participation and want to support artists… but sometimes people make things for the sake of detail overkill. Just b/c they have turned it into a modelling project… lets see how detailed I can get it… or how accurate it can be. Then it goes beyond potential use. We don’t need say a snowspeeder with every little button and screw. If somebody wants a close-up of a cockpit that will be an entirely separate model. At SCIFI 3D we think in terms of use. If something is too detailed, no matter how good, it won’t be of any use b/c it’s too big or sometimes it won’t even load.

But your models are excellent and I would NEVER complain about them being too detailed or anything. I do feel I need to urge you to get them finished and make them available to us. We are all LUCKY to just look at images of your stuff. THis trooper is of yours is absolutely EXCELLENT. I would rather you guys do what you want, whatever makes you happy, and we’ll deal with the consequences of that. BUT maybe… you could consider just finishing something like the Battledroid or Stormtrooper… and offereing it to SCIFI 3D. And over time if you want you can go back and update it as many times as you want. That’s IF you want to make it available. We also use models that are available only for SON OF THE SUNS and not allowed in public domain. We can do that too but I’d prefer that everybody had a chance to look at it of course.

Anyway… absolutely stunning model. Looks just like the ANH version. I’ve noticed that grey frown before and some other things you mentioned. I think I like the black better. I like the eyes that look black too. Troopers and Vader in the early versions had those bubble eyes that kinda looked red a bit. I never liked that much.


#35

heheh bubble lenses were dark green in the film :wink:

Yeah i’m nuts. And this is why i never finish models that i truly care about. I’m also an animator and not a modeller. Go figure. I’m more of an acting, animating, direction kind of person. I only model really when i want to or have to. I guess that sums up most. But generally i dont want to model.

Focusing on something that means that much to me is exhausting and things like the battledroid lose my attention after focusing so much on it. I guess its yin and yang:) If you focus really intense on something… there’s probably going to be an equally extreme period of abandonment of the project :wink:

Actually the trooper will be finished. The broid isnt finished because of mapping issues. I need to map so many peices that i got turned off. I still want to do it though. And i will. Perhaps doing a nice digital trooper and bdroid animation would be fun :slight_smile:

As for JJ’s… Ridell helmet, fan sculpt whatever. Its a good model.

i’m definatly insane when it comes to the trooper and battledroid. Both are on my mind heavily lately right now actually because i really want to finish them finally.

Modelling a trooper, in any form is dam hard. So i give JJ a lot of credit for creating a great model and image. It took me a dam long time to model a trooper. This one i started this year not too long ago as you know. But i’ve attempted to model the helmet early when i started 3d , and i’ve always thought about doing it, but the surface was too complex and the lack of reference was a factor. I almost gave up on this helmet because of the detail i wanted to acheive and the amount of intensity it would take to do so.

10bucks say i give up on the gun :wink: hehehe


#36

Yea yea… green. I hated that. :shame:

I wish some of you guys were more productive like me. I’m like a director. Whatever gets it done in the most efficient expedited way possible… with a high level of quality. If you and I were working on something together we’d both be living in your car. We’d be broke with your level of accuracy. But it’s all just for fun of course. :buttrock:

I wish you had more time to do something with us Adam. We are severly short on animating, character work, etc. Let me email you a couple of test animations. See what we’re doing. :thumbsup:

Ying/Yang is about human nature yes. And it is natural to burn yourself out on something. That may be another reason why you never finish. Even 20 years later I don’t think Lucas is still happy with SW even after redoing some of it. Alot of people don’t like the Jabba redo in ANH. I don’t like some things in ESB. So maybe you are a little bit too much of a perfectionsist. :wink: You’re driving yourself AND others crazy man. :scream: Most guys around here do a dozen things at once. The problem with CGI is it is very time consuming. So it helps to have diff. things going on at once. This is the best way to maximize efficiency. Even ILM probably wouldn’t be happy with you b/c you take too long. I imagine they would tell you the same thing… do ONLY what is necessary as quickly as possible. BUT perfectionism is a sign of a real artist too. It’s a trait of many successful people. But you gotta be in control of it. Maybe it drives you mad?

Do a droid and trooper animation with us? Maybe there’s something we’re doing that will interest you and serve both our needs OR maybe there’s something you want to do that can be fit into our project. I’d like to get as many names in the credits as possible so we’ve created alot of shots for this purpose.

If you’re happy with JJ’s gun use or modify his. Why beat yourself up over it. Surely there are a 100 other things you’d like to do.

P.S. You don’t have an email that I can send anything to you with.


#37

Chepeau man!

Incredible work!


#38

cool!!! still waiting to see a snow trooper from ‘Empire Strikes Back’ :thumbsup:


#39

There is a Snowtrooper on SCIFI 3D. It’s very good too. Steve Green did it and he’s an excellent professional. I have some aniamtions he’s doing with it too… BUT I can’t show them yet. Sorry.:shrug:


#40

Not bad…WOW IT LOOKS SO GOOD:bounce:
Looks like the original. Really well done:thumbsup: