Character: Natalie


#1

Hi to all!!

I’ve finished modeling a character, and some people tell me that she has a little flat face, but nobody tell me what exactly I have to change to fix that. I’m posting now some head renders, the wires and some of my references. What I want to know is if you think the renders matches the references, if you see the head flat, and what I have to tweak to solve it, cause I really don’t now it and I’m a bit obsessed with that.

I’m also starting to think how to do the hair. I’m want to do a hair as in the right-bottom reference. What system yould you recommend me??

I also started a thread in the wip section with all the body and clothes, if you want to see it -> http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147202

Here are the renders:

Here are the wires:

And here the references:


#2

Had the same problem on one of my first tries of modelling a human face, also a female.

Well I really cant give any breakthrough tips, cause all you really have to do is just try and tweak it more and more. But try radical changes. Eyes for example are not falt (on top view I bet your eyes are at almost the same level). You should also pay attention to the level-line from the outside of the eye to the tip of the mouth line. Everything outside of that usually starts forming the face, and as you can see on your shots, comparing with the reference pics, the face goes more “round” there. It makes a turn and loses the flatness if you pull everything back from there.

Another thing Id suggest is you to rotate the face into the same positions as the face on the reference pictures, and see the difference where you should make changes.


#3

The countour from just below the eye, across the cheekbone to the corner of the mouth needs to be a definite shallow C shape - but yours is very shallow. Compare against your lower left reference pic in particular.
Your wires show very little evidence of a definite cheek bone.

I suggest you take a step sideways and reprise the exercise of doing a (bone) skull, then adding the major muscles to it. You will never achieve a credible surface unless and until your underlying anatomy is right.


#4

I suggest inserting some geometry for eyebrows just to get a sense of placement. It’s good to have that for measurements sake. I notice that the bridge on the ref pic is not as flat as you have it in your model


#5

I’m not a 3d artist so take what I say with a grain of salt. I agree that the face looks flat. Look at a picture of the human skull, focusing on its contours. Starting at the forehead, her skull should be narrower in the front than in back. Considering the outline of the skull, it’s pinched up near the hairline, there are indentations at each temple, it widens at the brow, recedes around the eye sockets and bumps out again at the cheekbone. Looking at profile there should be a slight ridge where the brow is. I’m not sure if your woman’s eyes are recessed enough, but there’s too little indication of a cheekbone. Her nose looks too long for her face and doesn’t seem to leave enough room for her mouth.


#6

It also looks like the forehead is way to round and there is no brow above the eye. I’d suggest contouring the forehead a bit more. It’s especially evident from the profile view of the character. Fixe that and I think the head will be fine.


#7

Thanks for the replies, keep them comming, they are really useful. Now I’m doing a list of all I think I have to tweak, with your comments and looking to the references, and I will fix it as soon as I have free time.

The most important thing is to move the eyes back, and then all the cheek zone will move back, the nose will look a little bigger and I will try to round all the cheek zone. I will do little tweaks to the chin, the ears, to nose, the brows… But I think the most important will be the eyes.


#8

Here you have the head changed after a morning of tweakings and tweakings. Now I’ve see her much better. The only thing I’m not sure is that maybe now the brows are too much pronounced… what do you think???


#9

I’ve done some changes to the brow zone. Now probably that’s the final version of the head. Do you find something more to tweak?


#10

Your ear does not meld well with the head. It almost looks as if it was just pressed in, rather than attached. In addition, the lobe is weird, there should be no ridge down it like that.


#11

As you said, the face seems flat, which is a common mistake in building faces – I’ve done it myself. The reason seems to be from the foreshortening that occurs in a photograph, particularly when the images is taken straight on.
If you look at the reference picture in the upper right, you’ll notice her features sweep back rather quickly to create a smooth line from the muzzle of the face, through the cheekbones, back to the temple and ear.

Just as an experiment, try pushing the corners of her mouth back a bit more as well as the fatty part there and narrowing her jaw. Compared to the reference picture, your model’s jaw appears way too beefy. The narrow jaw is an effeminate trait that you should emphasize (or emphasise if you’re a Brit) here.

Also, try moving the outside corners of her eyes backward a bit as well as create a bit more of a dent in that area as shown in the reference image.

Her forehead is a bit blocky. Remember to taper it a bit in the temporal region and make her forehead begin it’s sweep backward a touch lower.

Keep it up. You’re moving in the right direction!

By the way, who is the girl in the reference image. She’s gorgeous.


#12

Hi, I had this post ready a couple of days ago… I couldn’t post it due to the site maintance, it is perfect now, so here it is…

I made a graphic based on what I THINK you should change in order to improve your character…
You can see the diferences here…

Keep working like that… compliments.!

Oh, I almost forget, I would like to know the name of the model too… she is just perfect.

Thank you

Ps. Just in case you dont notice the changes, I moved the nose and lips up a little bit, add some roundness on the cheek, straighted the forehead a little too.


#13

Thanks for your replies. Now I’ve started with the rigging just to do something diferent and maybe this way when I finish I will see her head with more perspective and I will do the final tweaks.

Really I don’t know her real name, cause I found her in diferent sites with diferent names while searching for a woman to model. What I’ve found is Natalie (yes, I’m not very original… :P), Nastasha, Ruby… I think she’s just a nude photography model.


#14

Head update… Hoping to be the last one :p… well, I’ve changed more or less what you’ve said, so the nose is shorter, I’ve changed a little the ear, the chin, curved a little more the mouth and I’ve tried to unflat all the zones arround the eyes. Tell me if this time is ok or not, or if it’s better at least.


#15

WOW! She’s so pretty! :wink: Do you have her phonenumber? :love: :rolleyes:

But, the model is really cool; very relaxt! I really like that shape, and she looks very realistic and natural! I can see really good that she’s a girl (I know it’s pretty tricky to give it a ‘girl’ sign).

Only critiques;

  • Make her earhole more deep
  • Give her a nicer ‘deepest point of ear’ (I don’t know how to tell; the part were a earring is stack into :wink: )

Really promising!


#16

Thanks Dutchman!! Here you have the render I’ve been doing this night. It’s the same, just rendered it to see better the model.


#17

I’ve been doing some quick skinning tests (not really started), and I have a problem. When I move her legs, in the body-leg connection zone, the vertexs of the leg enter inside the body structure in a really bad way. I don’t know if I just have to work on the skin parameters or if the leg bones are in a bad position.

Looking at the image, if the red line is where I want the leg to bend, anybody know if leg bones are in the right position or if I have to move them up or down? There’s some kind of rule about that??


#18

Just a few points to looks at:

  • pull eyeballs/lids back a little
  • cheek bones need to be scaled in for more curve
  • relook at front of the nose

It takes time to get a human head looking well, but keep practising.
And have fun!


#19

Howdy Woody

You got a lot of crits about flatness of the face. This happens often because we focus attention on the front and side views. You might be thinking ‘well when the hair is on and all the details it will be bingo’ however the better your model looks raw the better it looks when its all detailed up.

A neat way to trick yourself into making things rounder is to take a 3/4 view from the top and 3/4 view from the front and realise that you started out with a box mindset. This will help you push stuff back on the corners to the inside of the box, this will get things looking rounder.

She is a very pretty girl but in all fairness she has a bit flatter face to begin with.

I would make the the cheek bones a bit rounder in the outward 45 degree direction (even in the relaxed state) and take mass off the area between the chin and extreme outter point of the jawbone in an inward 45 degree direction.

When I get to this stage I make a copy of the head and go bannanas on it in a new document so I am free not to worry about ruining the base model. 9 out of 10 it works.

Real nice wireframe BTW!
Greetings Kanga


#20

When I get to this stage I make a copy of the head and go bannanas on it in a new document so I am free not to worry about ruining the base model. 9 out of 10 it works

This is so true.

Load it into a new scene and tweak magnet her to shape up the skull,it really helps getting a nice head to know how the skull is shaped.

The ear is a bit too thick in some areas IMO.

The eyesockets aren’t enough ‘in’ the face,push them inside a bit and definitely adjust the mid-corner of the eyes,it should be slightly ahead of the one on the other side.

There is an easy way to do this,just make the eyes and the head part of the same object and select all vertice on the eye then switch on and adjust your magnet and move it,works nice.

Push in the skin of the lower cheek between the mouth and the ear to make up that jaw bone a tad more visible(careful not to make it too masculine though).