CG Gallery voting musings.

#21

I’d also like to add that for every time I’ve seen someone complaining that they didn’t get enough comments, I’ve given at least one comment that was unwanted. (You know the response- “There’s nothing wrong with my image. I meant it to look that way. You are an idiot for questioning my artistic mastery.”)
That has definitely discouraged me from giving criticisms on occasion. Eh, you win some you lose some. Carina is right- there’s no perfect solution.

#22

I see what you mean and you are absoluteley right. Many people will have the same critique and thus will not post a redundant critique… humm, oh well back to the regular scheduled program :wink:

#23

This comes up a lot - and I’ve put a lot of thought into it.

We can’t get rid of voting, or you’ll have a lot of people very angry that they can no longer win CGChoice awards (we use the popular vote to filter them before we vote internally).

The 5 star rating system is flawed by it’s nature - no one knows if one star is good, just not as good as 5 stars, or if one star is bad. It’s all a bit obtuse.

A better, and I personally beleive fairer system is something more common to Digg, where items can be rated up or down. This gives a user 3 options, they can rate up, down or just leave it alone.

Now, on our end there is a lot of coding voodoo that could be done to prevent gaming the system - users for instance could have voting weights dependent on their contribution to the site. Someone who posts, or visits a lot, would have more voting strength than someone who has never posted and only shows up once a month.

#24

salmonmoose, I think those are great ideas! I hope you guys can make it happen. The voting weights in particual would solve many issues. Good luck with this guys, sounds great to me!

#25

Great ideas, Salmonmoose. I quote SNoWs in full.

I wanted to thank you and Carina in particular (sorry if I missed any other administrator or mod) for weighting in the discussion, it’s very appreciated.

#26

The other thing I’ve noticed (in my short time here) is that the first couple comments/votes REALLY set the tone for the rest, most of the time. Very rarely do people seem to differ very much. Now that’s probably mostly down to the fact that these initial comments/votes are spot on. Other times it could be that sociologically, especially if the initial commentator is respected, there’s a tendency to agree.

Not really a problem, or anything that needs changing, just an observation.

#27

Anton, once you’re talking about “coding voodoo,” what about tracking what each person votes on things and weeding out those people who only give 1-2 stars or only give 5 stars? Basically, filter out anyone who is always voting as a spoiler or a fanboy? Not to say people can’t give low and high ratings, but if someone is on this site to solely push star ratings down (or up), decrease their ability to do that.

#28

As an addition to an experience based system, it could be handy to force the new members to critique when giving star ratings. Those that get past the first x ratings then don’t have to justify their rating until they issue a string of similar ratings, say five in a row of the same rating, when the forced critiquing comes back into effect.

#29

This would be a problem for me. Reason is because here’s my list:
0 stars: I didn’t vote
1 star: I didn’t vote
2 stars: I didn’t vote
3 stars: I didn’t vote
4 stars: I didn’t vote
5 stars: I’m very impressed by your work and feel it deserves 5 stars.

I hate to admit it and I don’t know why I do it this way but I have never voted for anything other than 5 stars. Either it knocks my socks off or “Eh, moving on.” This then would lean more towards the Digg example. Voting up or down. Really I don’t effect the ratings that much because I don’t vote much at all. IDK, I just don’t come to this site for that purpose I guess.

Going back to the Digg example, enough Up votes would then elevate a piece to the point where the mods then consider it, like it reaches a threshold point. I see no reason to have a down vote. Why provide a mechanism to put down artwork. The comments should be the way to express your feelings negative/positive or constructive critisism. So either you vote Up or don’t vote at all. This would eliminate the troll voters leaving only the “You’re awsome!/You suck!” comments to deal with. My reason for thinking like this is that a person just learning probably doesn’t expect to create pieces as great as some of the masters on here. They are aware of that but they would still like to show it and possibly get some feedback. If this person then had to deal with no comments along with 1 star votes or -50 down votes its nothing but discouraging. I feel it would be better for CGS to create an environement that is benificial to the beginner while offering the expert a way of being recognized.

This is the way I vote anyway so I’m biased towards the idea. So, those of you who are more experienced with the voting on the site or what has been done before, what would be the pros and cons with this method?

#30

Frankly I think the star ratings are little more than superfluous e-peen fluff. People take it way too seriously.

#31

Well their must be a ‘system’ we can count on, right? Rating it one way or another is ‘important’ I think for this community.

I would love to see a go Digg kinda way of voting. It works pretty well all over the web.

#32

Uh, I am glad that this problem is being discussed now. I already thought about mentioning it too, but I didn’t want people to think “Oh, he’s blaming Trolls for getting low votings - maybe he just too convinced about his own work!”

Whenever I posted pictures in the last couple of month I first got some good vontings like 4 stars. Then suddendly people try to vote it down with one star. I really don’t want to appear too proud of my work, but 1 star??? If people think the picture is bad, then I want to know WHY it is. Maybe the problem is really the anonymity of the voters.

I hope there can be a solution for this. Maybe voting should be coupled with writing a comment. Like the voting system being a part of the post writing dialogue.

cheers
Marc

#33

I think you could expand on that by giving the best artists the most weight with their votes, rather than just those who just post the most, which can potentially just be idle spammers.
After all, the best artists around here are generally professionals who don’t have a lot of time for posting.
For example, people who’s work is already in the award gallery would obviously be candidates for getting more ‘weight’ with their votes.
As it is, I think the vast majority of people who star things are just amateurs who don’t really know the difference between mediocre, good or great, and I agree with quadart that I virtually never see images that I think have been unjustly under-rated.

#34

ON the other hand, when I do give crits, I’m usually attacked for it because I’m too blunt or honest about it.
I’m sure there’s plenty of people like me who could give valuable input but don’t even bother any more because this is clearly not a forum conducive to honest opinion. There are too many people who think the best way to treat adult artists is like 5 year old kids who’ve just brought a finger painting home from kindergarten.
So, all you’re left with is the noobs saying ‘awesome work dood!’, or worse, people who know better being deliberately dishonest and patronising, telling others their work is good even when they know it’s not.

#35

So if i’m the best artist in the world but i never won a cgtalk award my vote has less weight than yours because you’re in the gallery? Do me a favour…

#36

Repeating for emphasis.

#37

If I only look to the responses in this thread it might not be a good idea to give some people ‘more weight’ than others. That will make some angry, in the end we are all the same.

I understand that some valueble artists know what they are voting… but I don’t think it’s good for the community to create levels of ‘good’ and ‘less good’ etc.

#38

I find it interesting that you’d think you have to be an incredible cg artist to have an eye for talent and quality. Personally, I reckon that’s elite-ist snobbery at its worst and most gag-inducing.

Which makes me go back to my previously stated opinion of how you’ll never get everyone to agree on what’s fair and not fair, you’ll never have everyone be happy with one solution when it comes to these things. Ultimately, I just don’t pay much attention to ratings like these, on any site.

#39

What I’m saying is that it’s a lot more likely that people who know how to do Cg well themselves can give informed opinions on other people’s CG work, and give a lot more detailed technical and critical advice, since they know exactly what they’re looking for and what the good and bad points are in any Cg piece.
It’s technical advice that important here, not artistic advice. Artistic advice is almost always subjective opinion, whereas the technical aspects of CG are not. That’s where critique is important, and yes, it most definitely is people who’ve been there and done it who carry the most weight. That’s not elitism, it’s just common sense.
You don’t ask any random person in the street to give you piano lessons, you go to someone who knows how to play the piano very well.
Obviously (most) people who have work in the award galleries are informed on what makes CG good or bad, since you have to know that in order to produce a good piece of work, it’s not luck.

#40

As it is, I think the vast majority of people who star things are just amateurs who don’t really know the difference between mediocre, good or great
Oh, it’s quite easy: male subject in the picture=mediocre, female subject in the picture = good, half naked female subject with boobs bigger than her head = excellent.
At least that’s my impression(not my personal taste/opinion/criteria) when browsing the galleries.