Canada Or Australia ?

#19

I think first of all you need to decide exactly what you want to do, 3D in general is not a practical goal, you can’t learn everything and be good at all of them, so my suggestion, first decide.

Welll deciding is what is driving me crazy.:banghead: … i don’t know how to decide wht i want to do:cry: …

Here’s the thing i enjoyin modeling things and setting things up for an environment or somethin but i dont xactly know how to draw the reference drawings and concept art to begin modeling, but at the sametime i also like animating things and playin around with the models created, and i feel tht drawing the plan for the animation doesn’t require as much detailed drawing as required for modeling, correct me if i’m wrong. Haven’t tried out fluid fx and other particle fx to create sand storms and dust fx so i don’t xactly know wht i’ll b doin there.

i never had any formal training in drawing but can draw to some extent :blush: juz tht i don’t know the techniques and methods to get things proportionate and stuff. tht’s y i’m totally confused bout wht to do cause i know tht traditional drawing is wht is very much required in CG and would love to learn it formally.

Heres the thing i like to model some creatures, environments, etc in 3d from my imagination and make them animation ready and also for rendering stills like many images on this site… wht shud i learn to do this and get a job… and wht will i b called modeler, concept artist, etc… Let me know wht i shud b lookin forward to learnin in the course i must choose

Right now all i’m good @ is C++ programming and various other computer hardware/software/network and other technical stuff as i’ve completed my bachelor’s degree in computer engineering… i joined tht hopeing to make it to the gaming industry someday designing characters and environments for games/movies but little did i know then tht i need to major in arts.:cry:

Please help me decide and point me in the right direction… And selecting the place is very important to me because i need to make a living in the country i’ll b entering to study now so gettin a work permit/PR is very important to me. :sad: I’ve got nothin to return to my place again… I’ll b investin almost all my money to shift to a new country so i don’t want to make any costly mistake. Let me know if a bachelores in any traditional arts is wht i shud do or some course in VFS, i’m open to canada australia or the US.

Thank u for reading this long post… :blush: i’m sorry but i didn’t know where else to go for answers…

#20

You might ask Siju / Thomasphoenix for advice regarding what to study, since he formerly ran an animation school in India (Chennai, I believe) - and is a regular poster here:

      [http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=200&t=296477&highlight=thomasphoenix](http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=200&t=296477&highlight=thomasphoenix)
    
    CGP: [http://thomasphoenix.cgsociety.org/gallery/480672/](http://thomasphoenix.cgsociety.org/gallery/480672/)
      
      Great traditional draughtsman with a great deal of 3D / animation skill as well. Also you might inquire with anandpg (Bangalore):
      
      [http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=200&t=409148&highlight=anandpg](http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=200&t=409148&highlight=anandpg)
    
    CGP (Nudity): [http://anandpg.cgsociety.org/gallery/](http://anandpg.cgsociety.org/gallery/)
      
      Also someone in India with a great deal of skill in both areas. Both guys are really friendly. Good luck. :)
  
  With respect to drawing, there are plenty of free resources online as well as resources like DVDs to get you started - if you're committed, you won't have to pay that much to learn how to draw. I don't know that online stuff can completely replace drawing directly from a model - but you can definitely get started and learn a lot without having to take a live class.

Regarding your original question - from everything I've heard, there's very little in Aus with respect to animation / 3D education. So if you have the choice between somewhere in Aus and VFS in Canada, based on reputation alone I would recommend VFS. That being said, if you are looking at the US, then places like Ringling are longer term courses - VFS is only 1 year and a lot of money. Ringling is a lot of money, but you'll have more time to develop your skills (including your traditional skills).

In the US I think your best bets are places like Ringling, AAU, Cal Arts (Cal Arts being very difficult to get into). You might also look into Gnomon, but there is less opportunity to develop your traditional skills there, which you might have more opportunity to do at a school like Ringling or AAU. Gnomon also only offers a certificate program and cannot grant you a degree - which may be necessary for some visa purposes, but I don’t know. These are just my opinions, you should investigate each of the schools you are interested in individually. This forum has a ton of information on individual schools:

ART SCHOOLS & EDUCATION
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15

#21

Australia would be great if it wasnt for the huge bugs! :smiley:

That and pretty much everything in the ocean kills you.

#22

I’d love to help you out, but unfortunantly I don’t work with them any more. I know one of them had work experience before coming here. Now that I think about it, I do work another guy from India who just got his Canadian citizenship. I can ask him what process he went through.

You are right though, the government does not recognise a certificate the same as a diploma or degree. However the education can still go towards getting your work permit. Ultimately, befor getting a work permit you need a job offer. Which is not gauranteed by attending school. So moving here to go to school in a hopes of getting work and working your way to landed immigrant status is a bit of a gamble. But once you get a decent education and make yourself employable, doors could open for you in all sorts of places. So it may not be the gamble you think it is. I’d say hedge your bets by going to the school that you think will provide you with what you need. The CG industry is well known for its transient work force.

Your computer engineering and programming can make you very valuble in our industry, especially when combined with some artistic skills. As for being one of the dudes who desgins creatures etc, those roles usually go to more hard core designer types. They are glory position for sure, but with a programming background you can position yourself to be extremely valuble to a studio. People who can write good production tools that artists can use intuitively are worth their weight in gold.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/index.html

#23

Actually Sheep, it’s not just the big ones you need to watch out for… like this critter I caught in my backyard, there’s still a few more of these spiders there. You just gotta watch out where you put your limbs, like your shoes for instance, specially after a rainy day, there might be one of these critters taking refuge in it.

But like I said, other than that, Australia is all right. :smiley:

#24

If you are looking for pr then you need to work at least for one year to get a solid chance of acceptance. (don’t want to spend all that money and be rejected, and the application is expensive). As for getting work visas, most places in Vancouver are relatively small therefore would be less inclined to go through the visa process or wait for you to get it for a couple of months, as most positions need to be filled fast in small shops, especial entry level ones.

#25

Although it’s New Zealand where even the leading production company is named for a giant bug…

-jeremy

#26

Bah don’t let a few dozen deadly creatures scare you away…

Nothing wakes you up more in the morning then putting on shoes and praying that a spider has decided to call it home…

#27

Thanx a lot Rebeccak for ur info :bowdown: and lettin me know bout other indian members here. I’ll PM them right away.

Now that I think about it, I do work another guy from India who just got his Canadian citizenship. I can ask him what process he went through.

@twedzel
I’d highly appricate it if u could do tht for me…:bounce:

Australia would be great if it wasnt for the huge bugs! :smiley:

Actually Sheep, it’s not just the big ones you need to watch out for… like this critter I caught in my backyard, there’s still a few more of these spiders there. You just gotta watch out where you put your limbs, like your shoes for instance, specially after a rainy day, there might be one of these critters taking refuge in it.

Man if u guy’s r scaryin me away frm Australia ur doin a good work :eek:

With respect to drawing, there are plenty of free resources online as well as resources like DVDs to get you started - if you’re committed, you won’t have to pay that much to learn how to draw. I don’t know that online stuff can completely replace drawing directly from a model - but you can definitely get started and learn a lot without having to take a live class.

Well I’v already started takin internet classes and purchased a couple of dvd’s from gnomon workshop. Well most of wht i’ve learnt is from their dvd’s and a couple from digital tutors. And thinking bout it i thought of joining a locat art school so tht i may get some live training so someone could @least guide me in the right direction if i’m doing somethin wrong. :blush:

from everything I’ve heard, there’s very little in Aus with respect to animation / 3D education. So if you have the choice between somewhere in Aus and VFS in Canada, based on reputation alone I would recommend VFS. That being said, if you are looking at the US, then places like Ringling are longer term courses - VFS is only 1 year and a lot of money. Ringling is a lot of money, but you’ll have more time to develop your skills (including your traditional skills).

In the US I think your best bets are places like Ringling, AAU, Cal Arts (Cal Arts being very difficult to get into). You might also look into Gnomon, but there is less opportunity to develop your traditional skills there, which you might have more opportunity to do at a school like Ringling or AAU.

Well from all tht i’v heard looks like there isn’t much hope for me in Australia :sad: , guess there isn’t much work available there and for the available ones i guess they’ll prefer to hire local’s and people who are already PR’s, please correct me if i’m wrong.

Your computer engineering and programming can make you very valuble in our industry, especially when combined with some artistic skills. As for being one of the dudes who desgins creatures etc, those roles usually go to more hard core designer types. They are glory position for sure, but with a programming background you can position yourself to be extremely valuble to a studio. People who can write good production tools that artists can use intuitively are worth their weight in gold.

This sounds intresting… wht exactly will i b doin as a programmer with some artistic skills.:curious:
Also will @ some point in my life i b able to shift to being a designer, and will i @least have the time to do somethin creative n bring out image tht i can post in this site n stuff or will i end up being juz another programmer in a company who has no time to do nethin else :hmm: .

Well what ever it is i will b starting to build my career by studin a course abroad so please also let me know wht kinda course shu i b lookin @. BTW does neone know if the MS in Digital Imaging and Designis a good course to go for doin tht techinical programmer jobs…

#28

I was in Sydey recently and due to the drought and high fuel costs, food prices are also pricey ie ~$5-$10AUD/kg of chicken. Rents are up there too $300-$1000AUD/week… but the views!

From what I gathered of the CG industry in oz, although fairly healthy is not big enough to support a great deal of artists, even though the government is encouraging skilled immigration. The australian government also does not offer the steep incentives that NZ, Canada, more recently England and Central Europe has for film/cg production.

Canada has many more studios but the glut of students entering the market makes the competition pretty tight.

#29

You’re welcome. :slight_smile:

Well I’v already started takin internet classes and purchased a couple of dvd’s from gnomon workshop. Well most of wht i’ve learnt is from their dvd’s and a couple from digital tutors. And thinking bout it i thought of joining a locat art school so tht i may get some live training so someone could @least guide me in the right direction if i’m doing somethin wrong. :blush:

Oh, I think that’s great. I would never discourage anyone from taking a live class, it’s best. :slight_smile: Best of luck in making your choice, I’m sure it’s a lot to think about.

#30

My coworker came over as a skilled worker. He needed a degree a minimum of four years work experience in his field and $10000 Canadian in his bank account. He’s says that the paper work can take four years to complete, fortunately you can use those four years against the work experience that you need. Probably isn’t much help to you.

As for programming in a studio environment, that can mean many things from working as a TD and being involved hands on in production to programming and scripting proprietary tools and programs for the artists to use. The artistic experience can help you in getting into the mindset of the artists as they use your tools. You will understand production needs so much better. If you are good enough artistically then you can be multi functional working creatively and scripting tools for yourself and other artists. It really depends where you work and the role you can find for yourself. If the later is the case the doors are wide open for you, programmers/artists are a very rare commoditiy. Being just a prorammer or TD is nothing to snub your nose at though, those guys can earn big bucks in a studio.

#31

My coworker came over as a skilled worker. He needed a degree a minimum of four years work experience in his field and $10000 Canadian in his bank account. He’s says that the paper work can take four years to complete, fortunately you can use those four years against the work experience that you need. Probably isn’t much help to you.

Thanx for the info, ofcourse it’s of help to me @least now i know wht i’ll b needing. Also did ur coworker add the 4yr xperience while in Canada or did he already have that eperience before he left India??

As for programming in a studio environment, that can mean many things from working as a TD and being involved hands on in production to programming and scripting proprietary tools and programs for the artists to use. The artistic experience can help you in getting into the mindset of the artists as they use your tools. You will understand production needs so much better. If you are good enough artistically then you can be multi functional working creatively and scripting tools for yourself and other artists. It really depends where you work and the role you can find for yourself. If the later is the case the doors are wide open for you, programmers/artists are a very rare commoditiy. Being just a prorammer or TD is nothing to snub your nose at though, those guys can earn big bucks in a studio.

Well wht course and programming languages do i need to learn to b qualified for scripting tools. Also will there b place in the industry for a person with good programming skills and ability to learn new programming languages very quickly, has a great imagination and is workin on his artistic skills to bring:blush: out the imagination to life, and is also very good with many kinda trouble shootin with the OS and hardware… :sad:

anyway’s THANK U :bowdown: people i’ve planned to either move to Canada or the US now… one step of decision is done.

Now i want to know if its better to do a 1yr animation n vfx course in VFS or do a 3yr or so art and animation degree course in colleges like Ringling, CalArts… ect… (cause the fee is almost the same, livin xpences not included) please know tht i’m still in the process of building a career in CG and so my drawin skills r still only building up which i’m workin on right now… I also found out the while in VFS they advice us not to work on part time jobs, this could mean things will get a bit more costly for me…:sad:

Thanx once again for all the information u’ve given me…

#32

Well, your living expenses will be more for a 3 year program vs. a 1 year program - but in a 3 year program you will have that much more time to develop friends and social networks as well as allow your work to grow at an organic pace. However, living expenses are a big factor, and you may not be able to afford the luxury of a 3 year school / living expenses for that long, and that’s a personal decision you must make.

If it were me I’d go for the 3 year program, just because for myself I know I can only take on board so much information at once and process it to any effective degree. You may be entirely different however and thrive under a ton of pressure at a 1 year course. It’s totally a personal decision. Good luck!

Bottom line is that you need to apply to several schools because the likelihood is that Cal Arts won’t accept you (it’s highly competitive) potentially ruling out 1 of the 3 places you’ve mentioned. Apply to at least 4 schools and maybe 5 if you can afford to do so. A lot of the time, fate is the deciding factor in these things. You may or may not get into the top school of your choice, so you need to have several schools in mind.

Now before you ask which schools those might be, I suggest reading the Sticky thread on the schools topic. :wink:

#33

Well wht course and programming languages do i need to learn to b qualified for scripting tools. Also will there b place in the industry for a person with good programming skills and ability to learn new programming languages very quickly, has a great imagination and is workin on his artistic skills

Of course! The languages most often used are C++ and python. It wouldn’t hurt you to learn Maya and mel scripting as well.

my friend had his work experience completed before coming to Canada.

School wise, 1 year intensive at VFS is very intensive. You want to be able to focus and holding a parttime job would really be a detriment to your studies. There isn’t much time to absorb things, and you will be learning 3D at the same time you are learning art stuff. It works better if you already have an art foundation to leap off from. When I went to VFS I was at a point in my life where this was perfect for me. I had gone to art school and needed more technical training. VFS was great for that. One of the big advantages of VFS is if you are industry ready when you get out, then you can consider the next two years of your life working in a studio as a continuation of your education, but someone else is paying you to be there and you are getting production experience rather than class room experience. However if your art base is shakey, it may not be the best opportunity for you. I have seen many upon many a VFS grad not get a job because they didn’t have what it takes going in to the course of study.

A 3 year course is great to give you more time to get comfortable and experiment with things. But the more time you have, the more you use. If you need to work on basic visual art as well as the fundamentals of production this may be a better environment for you. Its a tough desision to make, so research it well and try to make sure you are finding a good fit for you.

#34

I don’t know if I need to b posting this somewhere else :shrug: but I thought i’ll continue here itself

well i’ve posted all my questions in THIS THREADhttp://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=109&t=491668 as i thought it’ll be more relevant there… anyway’s this is what i wanned to ask…

For a while now I’ve been researching about the technical part of the CG industry :curious: and gotten an idea about it but am still unaware of certain things which I hope you guys will be able to clear for me. These are a few questions I’d like you’ll to answer if you’ll don’t mind.
[ul]
[li]Are there any kind or portfolio and other show reel requirements to search for a job after the course for the technical part and if so what will one need to do in the reel?[/li]> [li]What course should I be looking at and will there be any possibilities to enter the gaming field sometime?[/li]> [li]As a fresher how are the job opportunities for this particular techinical field?[/li]> [li]Does the company give any initial training after recruiting freshers or do they expect people to come prepared to work from day one?[/li]> [li]While studying in or after completing college will it be possible to attend an internship in companies like ILM, Pixar etc.?[/li]> [li]What is the average pay scale one can expect as a fresher techie?[/li]> [li]How is an average day in your life working at ILM,etc. kinda studios as a techie?[/li]> [li]Will one still have time to pursue CG art as a hobby?[/li]> [li]What are all the obstacles one should watch out for before venturing into the techinical field?[/li]> [li]Will this course M.S in Digital Imaging and Design at the New York University help?[/li]> [li]What core subjects in the curriculum do I need to look for before selecting a course?[/li]> [li]Should I look for an option to do a PhD after MS, as I heard that certain Universities allow students to combine such courses and complete it earlier than the required course duration, please correct me if I’m wrong?[/li]> [li]What exactly does a T.D need to do in a studio environment and how are they different from someone with R&D, also I guess there is an art T.D and a technical T.D? (T.D meaning Technical Director which I’m assuming it to be, I just heard of those positions on websites and forums, please correct me if I’m wrong).[/li]> [li]Finally in case I choose to do MS in Computer Science at Digipen will it help? Cause I like to be able to compatible between both the film and gaming industry or is that not possible?[/li]> [/ul]Anyways I thought a lot and am finding it difficult to decide what to do, I’ve also started taking up foundation arts classes here at my home town and then may be apply for a Masters in CG and animation cause it’s my passion :love: and dream to be able to create and animate stuff for a living but I also love programming and understand it well and have a bachelors computer engineering degree already :blush: so I wasn’t sure if I will be making the right choice and so I’m planning to know all about both sides of CG before taking any further steps as I figured once I enter the field to make a career outta the programming part I could still continue doing CG art as my hobby which I will never quit and be a programmer by day to make my living. This is a tough decision to make as this will be my only shot to study abroad and make a living out there. :banghead:

Thanks a lot for your time :slight_smile:

  • Prahalad
#36

Thanx a lot BoostAbuse :bowdown: for answering all my questions so quickly, it really has cleared most of my confusion:thumbsup:

Now all i need to do is weigh the advantages of both career options and choose one and pursue it, for which also i need a little bit of your help guys.

[ul]
[li]The question is weather to pursue CG as the :arteest: artistic career or the :lightbulb technical career???[/li][/ul]Well here are the reasons i’m considering for making the choice, please let me know if i’m missing out somethin or haven’t considered something important or making a choice for the wrong reasons…
[ul]
[li]I’m 21yr’s old and I’v not had any formal art classes on any foundation art skills till now and have juz started takin basic drawing and life drawing classes, so if i choose to pursue an artistic career i’ll have to start with a bachelors degree as the fact that i don’t think the 1yr intensive courses will help me strengethen my foundation skills. For this reason i wont be able to study at VFS but will study a 3 or 4yr program in colleges like Ringling, etc.[/li][li]As for the technical career i already have a bachelors degree and only need to take up the GRE test to get admission for the masters program in any college. Also i have a steady foundation in my programming skills, but need to start learning DirectX and OpenGL which i’m hoping to do during the masters program. or do i need to know them befor applying for the master’s degree:sad: cause as of now i can understand and write programs in C,C++,JAVA, but don’t know anything in directX and OpenGL programing.[/li][li]I also am pretty comfortable working with MAYA and 3ds max. I’ve done few of the modeling and texturing tutorials and also the complete mental ray for maya from gnomonworkshop DVD’s and Haven’t started learning scripting yet but am planning to get the Gnomonworkshop Dynamics & expression series to get started, will this help towards the techinical or the artistic career?[/li][li]So what do you people think is the right choice i need to make that will give me a better career option, or for which of these two options will work out better for me helping me to get a job i would again like to mention that right now my drawing skills are kind of poor.:cry: but am working on it.[/li][li]One more reason i’m considering is that if i do my bachelors in art and say i complete it in 3or 4 yrs, i’ll be 25yr’s old by then will my age play a factor in getting a job and also not to forget that i’ll be having 2 bachelors, engginering & arts, is this better than having a MS or MS and PhD by the time i’m 26yrs old. Which is of a higher value? This may probably sound like a lame question to ask but sorry people I really need to be sure that i’ve made the right decision:blush:[/li][li]One more thing i would like to know is as a talented artist or as a technical artist which will offer better job stability.[/li][li]For a person confused like me what would be a better career option.[/li][li]Also no matter what i choose to do i’ll put in all my effort into it, and would also like to mention that competation has always made me work harder no matter what i’m doing. I really thank my parents for giving me the opportunity to either be an artist or a technical engineer but at this point in my life i need to choose one and making the choice and it’s too difficult :banghead:[/li][/ul]so people thank you for helping, u people are the greatest and this site is awesome.
once again thank you all for sharing your information with me and helping me in making this major decision in my life.

-Prahalad

#37

only some old farts around here will get this, but as the McKenzie brothers would say “Take off to the Great White North”

Here is a link to the characters in case of confusion; http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/9134/