Can EIU be substitte for AM

#23

Originally posted by Roger Eberhart
One thing to keep in mind with EI, it is a very Mac-centric program. It doesn’t use the right mouse button for anything. Instead, the viewport navigation controls require hitting multiple keys at the same time. Also, at least half (maybe more) of the plug-ins are Mac only. Just thought I’d warn the PC users out there.

I’m currently evaluating the demo.

On that version the right button is for the popup menu.

I agree that it is a bit Macish to at least not use the middle button.

The worse thing with using the left button for object AND view handling is the risk you take to move something by misstake. In this area Cinema is the worst of the one I tested so far. In Cinema both the raight and the left button has double functionality. Add to that that the last used command not gets deactivated after use but remains the active one. Just move the mouse the least when right clicking for the popup and you might have moved something in your models structure. Something you might not see but will create hours of work later in the process.

What was most annoying in EIU was that it not allways was the same keys for the same function. It did differ between the modeller and the animator as well as between 2D and 3D views.

Also, the view handlin I do the most (rotate the view) had the worst key combination (space-ctrl-shift or o). So either I had to allmost breake my arm of or I had to look down in order to find the ‘o’ key. Plain stupid. Appart from that the application did feel solid. The horizontal view rotation was in the direction i prefer ( Cinema and TrueSpace is not). It imported my models straigh into the animator and at the same time it created the model in native format. I also got it into the modeler but I did however not have any succes in editing the model. I will contact EI and ask about this. The renderspeed was remarkable. I admit, no advanced scene but I think its impressive anyway. A 30000 polygon f-104 fighter jet. I did render at 640 x480 at about 1/2 to 1/3 of a second.

#24

well
you are right
first EIU is the best and fastest renderer around
some would say renderman or mantel Ray but you shouldn’t notice differences and will wait a millenium,apart that you should be almighty programmer to render/shader

second the interfaces is really as MAC(little akward),and like AfterEffects
I learn simple AE for justcombinig live action foootage and my CG
character ala Jumanji,DragonHeart,Jurasssic Park ,Disney’s “Dinosaurus”
I did change my model moving a knot or CV because no diselect
but I think you should DOUBLE0CLICK RIHJT MOUSE BUTTON
to deselect last command
and got modeling,I guess is millenium apart from AM
I don’t know hoe much time you spend for your fighter
and I don’t know how long will take in AM to deo same
modeling,texturing,rendering for output

but I am mostly concery about character aninmation capabilities

How come you couldn’t chage your model
You couldn’t change in Modeler or animator?
For example I have model of leg
and import in animator
when walk cycle is taking place I notice that a bend is not good
so I switch in modeleer to add extra details
and go back for another test rendering,twicking,rigging/constraining
And most important,does EUI crush?
How about manuals/documentations?
And character animation possibilities?
That is I want to switch from AM?
What about rigging,constraints,boning,animate?
Does it work?
And oreganic modeling for animal and monsters/creatures is more difficult than in AM or not?
Does it crush Ior Ican trust it in production enviroment?

HUuuu a lot of question

take a look at this please and tell me your opinion okay

www.eridia.com/tbf/

www.drummondesign.net/Content/ContentMicrobes.html

http://www.electricimage.com/products/newprodsplash.htm
and from here go to gallery,and tham to animation portion of galler(lower left) and than “rapa” movie right ,stuart little up left
of big family elefants left
real damn good character wotk not seen with AM
let me know
I get eui too and try to figure damn rigging/constraints/bonong

#25

>How come you couldn’t chage your model

Well when I got it into the modeller and click a vertex the whole object gets selected. Could it be because it’s a demo version?

I have sent a mail to EI and asked.

#26

Nope. . . thats just the way it works. Weird huh.

#27

Originally posted by HellBorn
[B]>How come you couldn’t chage your model

Well when I got it into the modeller and click a vertex the whole object gets selected. Could it be because it’s a demo version?

I have sent a mail to EI and asked. [/B]

You mean after your model has been modeled ans saved in modeler and when you reload it you can’t modeel at vertex level
or so?
Maybe you should select some option as editing at vertex/edges/faces/object level or similar as in MAYA?
Or after you have exported it in animator’s file type and want to take it back im modeler
I concerne EIU because of its speed&rendring quality,otherwise…?
LW is bit pricey,and add messiah,too
Certanly,I will go with MAYA very affordable,very affordable fo me
defacto standard in undustry
just learning curve …nothing under 2 years,that is gor long term
I need some for short term
I must say I work over day just another job,(brick/facade layer)
and in the free time I learn MAYA
I decided to breack in industry
I just have to examine all possibilities

#28

I have hopefull 3D artists come applying for work at my company all the time. They pretty much think that if they know Maya or Max. . . they can get a job. They get a little shocked when I tell them that their complete lack of a portfolio and traditional art skills is what didn’t get them the job. . .

If you want to “break in”. Then put a portfolio together of great work. IN ANY PACKAGE!

#29

Ok so here is the simple for why you can’t edit your polygon models imported to EIU.

Straight from Phil Martin:

Our modeller cannot handle polygon models.

#30

Originally posted by HellBorn
[B]Ok so here is the simple for why you can’t edit your polygon models imported to EIU.

Straight from Phil Martin:

Our modeller cannot handle polygon models. [/B]

Sorry
I am really not that stupid but…
from where you import it actually?
from Modeler in Animator as *eim?
or from Animator as *.FACT to Modeler back?
Or from…?

#31

I imported an .obj model into the Animater and when doing so the Animator created a .fact file version.

I the imported that .fact file into the modeller.

Whatever I did I could not access anything else than the parts it was built from.

So I checked with EIU and they say I can’t do it because it don’t handle polygons.

Not a big problem as I see it if you have another app in witch you can fix your model.

#32

Originally posted by HellBorn
[B]I imported an .obj model into the Animater and when doing so the Animator created a .fact file version.

I the imported that .fact file into the modeller.

Whatever I did I could not access anything else than the parts it was built from.

So I checked with EIU and they say I can’t do it because it don’t handle polygons.

Not a big problem as I see it if you have another app in witch you can fix your model. [/B]

hi
I was the same problem
but it is simple
let say you have Left-Knee.FACT model in animator
when you have your model in animator and see that for example it doesn’t bend good because it is not modeled good in the knee area you load that LeftKnee.eim model again in modeler and reshape it and save it inderr the same name and next time when you open that project in animator
you have all those bones setup and rest the same with your
LeftKnee.FACT remodeled
that’s all

you just have to reload the same model in modeler 's native format, reshape and again save it under the same name
next time when starting animator,it calculates automaticaly changes you have benn done and then you havw model with anough vertexes/CV points/rings whatever in knee arae
start aniamtio preview and see if bending matches your need

I alredy purchased it

best regards,
Ben

#33

But that assumes that you have modeled in EI. You can’t work with Wings or AM or anything else and expect that same level of interaction.

I was also shocked at how high you have to make the polygon count in order for models to look smooth at render time.

Its a bit too “freaky weird out there” for me.

#34

Hi ben, I just update my version too. the new character tools look pretty good and I have no real problem importing or exporting my models.
If I made it in hash, I just fix it in hash and prepare the model using ei transporter.
If I made the model in eimodeller, than I just fix it and export it from there.
It’s not that big of a deal for me to work in different modellers, even though being able to bring everything into ei’s modeller would benice.
Mike Fitz

#35

Try and make facial shapes to do facial animation in AM.

It doesn’t work. :frowning:

I spent a good two weeks with EI trying to get it to work for me. . .

/me lifts up his pant leg to show his scars.

#36

tresher shark… or are we talking about different movies?
I’ve gotten it to work in the past, but I took a version off from EI and spent it with Hash… So I’ve forgotten the steps I took. What you’re also saying may mean that it, for some reason in no longer possible… which I’m sure I’ll soon discover.
Did you run the dxf from hash through transporter?

#37

I don’t remember their being any “transporter” at the time. This may be something they fixed. Who knows. I’d be interested to know if you can get it all to work.

#38

It’s not that you can’t import models into Electric Images Modeler from other applications, is that you can’t edit them once you have. You can’t even edit their native fact files once they’ve been exported. The key word here is EDIT. You can get the model into the application, (transporter has been around since version 2 at least) but you can’t change it once it’s there. You can animate it, however. (in animator of course) If there was something about the mesh you didn’t like you’re pretty much S.O. L. You have to go back to the model file (which is a separate thing from the .fact file) alter the mesh and re-export.
The renderer? One of the best, I think. I find it odd that everyone always talks about how fast it is but never mention if it’s any good or not. Doesn’t matter if it’s fast if the finished product isn’t any good, but in this aspect E.I. really delivers. And it’s pseudo-global illumination is not only beautiful, but it’s just as sceamin fast as the rest of the render system.
Character animation? Well, it can be done, but it’s surely not the best tool for the job. EI continues to improve their character animation tools and they have improved considerably since I started using it, but they don’t compare to LW/Messiah or, of course, Maya.
EI is best for environmental and mechanical animation. I can’t think of anything better in that arena, but if you’re focusing on character animation, especially photo real stuff, I would think hard before you decide to go down that road. (though, you never would have managed truly photoreal stuff with Hash, either. Not with that render system.) You can do it, but it’s gonna take more effort for the same results. I worked out a system to use low res proxy models, but honestly I’ve haven’t worked with a character model that was poly heavy enough for me to care, so that might be a non-issue, but it doesn’t have any sort of dynamics system without purchasing a plug in (or two), it doesn’t do fur/hair (always a good thing if you’re doing characters) and it doesn’t really have any kind of a UV mapping system. (all of this as of the last version of 4.x, though I didn’t see any of those features in the list for 5) It’s morphing system works, but is somewhat touchy and leaves little room for error.
Don’t get me wrong. I love EI. I just don’t try to make it into something it isn’t.
And one last thing. In my opinion buying the write tools, no matter what they cost, is half the battle of creative expression. You don’t see auto mechanics down at the flea market buying cheap tin wrenches and you won’t be able to push yourself to the limits of your creative vision if the software you chose isn’t the right package for the type of work you want to do.
Just to make it all the more confusing, I included a couple of renders of a character model (in progress) that I’ve been working on in EI.
Just my buck and a half’s worth

#39

I’ve been an EI user since V1.1 (a long time ago). EI doesn’t compare to AM when it comes to character animation tools - not even close - BUT - If you’re not doing character work, or rudimentary character work - EI may suffice.

I still use EI for a lot of things. It’s renderer is outstanding and the fastest one out there. Last time I did a comparison, it was on the order of 40 times faster than AM’s - with vastly superior quality. EI is still the king of handling heavy scenes with lots of lights, but it’s poor hardware display support is really starting to make it cumbersome to use.

I think EI is a great additional tool, but if you depend on CA work, then I’d look elsewhere…

My $.02…

Joe W

#40

Originally posted by SavageCreature
…and it doesn’t really have any kind of a UV mapping system.

Well, how the heck do you texture? Is it all procedural? Do you have to use cumbersome mapping objects? Sounds like the 3d tool of Satan…

#41

This is Satin’s spawn. Imagine having to use Gizmo. . . through a straw.

#42

Couldnt you make an animation in Hash export the bvh and then use Lifeforms to bring into EI? Just think about animating a proxy model in Hash. Then use the bvh info to animate a model created in EI. You can get Hash animation with the superior render of EI. What about exporting dxf or 3ds from hash - bring into FormZ and then save as SAT? You then can edit in modeler.
Just thinking out loud.

Maybe work in Wings 3d somehow since it can read dxf and mdl files?