C4d R17 more powerfull then r21?


many of the " new school " or young 3d tools out there are actually re writing the new " industry standards " is fragile the line between innovation and and crating.

cpu gpu renders all that is brand new… does render tools are so great the many high level studios changed there workflow to meet the nonlinear new workflow.

as jumping workstation… mac? whats a mac?


Well the most important thing is the time you spend, and as you get older the more acute this is to you.

For me i don’t have anymore patience to buggy software, things just have to work. Unfortunately 3D DCC software development have been extremely disappointing, 20 years later we are still discussing failure of boolean operations.

Something that MCAD software pretty much fixed long ago.


agreed. I feel like I am taking crazy pills waiting for more that a decade to see a couple of tools work properly… after 20 years I did switch from MAC to PC and I am not turning back. maybe is time to do the same with cinema and blender. learning curve is nothing if you understand the workflow… maybe…


There has been a distinct lack of competition in the 3d DCC space for over a decade. It’s almost like there has been an unwritten agreement that no one was to rock the boat and start a 3d arms race.

Houdini and Blender are shaking up the order of things and are consequently the two most exciting software packages around at the moment.

It’s up to those who’ve rested on their laurels and taken their eye off the road to get back on it. Autodesk may have shown their first card with Bifrost ICE, if this ICE is going to under pin Maya and there’s going to be a Mograph ICE then Maya could get very tasty.

Maxon should’ve fixed the roof while the sun was shining because the storm clouds are rising.


Please, stop name it ICE. It’s bifrost or naiad network. Latest Softimage releases were unstable. So even Asian dev.department of AutoDesk did not want to work with it and maintain it.


That must be why there’s a huge contingent of Redshift users on the Redshift forums still using Softimage. Don’t tell me what language I can and cannot use. I don’t take censorship and prescribed language very well.


Maybe waiting to implement renting…

Besides all companies got much heavier with managers for this and that. I wonder with output they show now how they could do Mograph, or ICE , or Particle Flow a decade more ago.

Another thing i have been feeling for a long time is stuff that are unexplainble let unfinished maybe then to get contract work…


Exactly!!! This is precisely what angers me the most, Mograph 2 happened 10 years ago and only in R20 was there a significant update to it, What. the. F happened in the intervening years? A massive siesta, that’s what. Maxon can’t even use the excuse they were waiting for hardware improvement to catch up because we all know C4D runs exactly the same (if not better!) on a 4 core with budget GPU to a 32 core with quad GPU workstation.

The character tools were another let’s start something and not finish it. Look at this system and it looks like the basis of a crowd system, it probably was but it went nowhere. Still has really crap rig retargeting tools. Cactus Dan’s character tools were much better.

The new openGL viewport that made such a song and dance about in R18 went nowhere fast. This could’ve been C4D’s Eevee but no. The developer left and it’s another missed opportunity. They didn’t even have the foresight to make it easy to use as a render by clearing the scene furniture. That one extra little step would’ve made so much difference.

Sketch and Toon is another classic example of an absolutely top notch feature that was way ahead of the competition, a great renderer in its day has been left. It’ll be 2020 soon and you still have to use that infuriating IPR when working with S&T. C4D devs take a look at how easy Anime production is in Blender, shading and with LANPR lines are stable and live in the viewport!

McGavran has got a big job ahead of him because with subscriptions comes a lack of commitment from the new users, they aren’t going to hang around if these old features aren’t modernised and they look across to the competition who are knocking out the park. That’s the other side of the subscription coin, I knew when I handed over £3.5k for C4D I committing myself to it for several years today the new users are only in for $740 and if they don’t get a great experience they won’t be back.


I am not talking about C4D specifically, this is a much vast issue that even goes deeper than 3D DCC. Just look at OS like W10, i mean, lots of tools appeared in Windows to ease of navigation but Microsoft stands still doing nothing with navigation almost as like as in time of W98.


"There has been a distinct lack of competition in the 3d DCC space for over a decade. It’s almost like there has been an unwritten agreement that no one was to rock the boat and start a 3d arms race".

The next BIG step forward would be to replace 1960s Polygons, Vertices, Faces, Ngons and so forth with completely new and different mathematical descriptions of 3D surfaces that are not “digital chicken-wire” based.

You can even describe a complex 3D surface using nothing more than “surface curves this way around the Y axis here, surface curves that way around the X axis here, surface runs in a straight line here, does a 90 degree turn there, and becomes wavy here” and so forth. Continuous surface curvature flow description with hard numbers, not a surface that is like a cracked mirror with facets, as you have in polygons.

A computer does not need “polygons” to define or animate or render a complex 3D model. A computer can render many different types of mathematical descriptions of 3D models to the screen just fine.

This would make 3D CG literally 10 X times easier to learn - no more quad topology retopo or bad deformation concerns, no more booleans fuckups, no more vertex pulling or edgeloop adjusting, no more fucked up rigging deformation, no more UV unwrapping to texture.

Basically everything that is shittily frustrating and time consuming about working with polygons would be gone forever.

This would, however, severely piss off the big-budget content producers like Hollywood.

Polygon workflow related problems and dirt-slow frame rendering speeds have kept “independent visual artists” from encroaching on Hollywood’s monopoly on eye-popping 3D CGI ever since Jurassic Park and the Abyss.

If you keep the modeling and animation workflow deliberately slow, and the final result rendering even slower, 15 talented people can’t get together in an apartment in some city with cheap rent with 10 x 2,000 Dollar Windows PCs and make something fully CGI that rivals The Avengers or Star Wars.

The minute you can model a detailed 3D hero character in 20 minutes, that character gets auto-rigged with one mouse click, and nobody has to worry about topology, UV unwrapping or any other shit, you are direct competition to Hollywood and its powerful international investors.

20 talented 3D artists could rent a loft together and become a small studio that can rival Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks and everybody else that is peddling CGI-heavy content to the world market.

Considering just how much money is at stake - tens of Billions of Dollars in a good year - the idea that the 3D DCC software makers have “agreed not to compete” is not wholly unrealistic.

Go on. Ask Autodesk, Maxon, Foundry and so forth to give you a “a brand new non Polygonal workflow”.

They can give you exactly that purely technically speaking, but would rather pretend that this takes 1 Decade of serious R&D, and maybe give it to you in 2027 or so.


So we’re all clear, polygons are a Hollywood elite conspiracy to keep the little guy down?


Its a subreddit. Some have lost their minds going down that rabbit hole. Tread carefully.


BobbyBob3D ever heard of Nurbs or MCAD kernels? they have many advantages but also other problems.


What if polygons are just the tip of the iceberg? What if we go deeper, I bet pixels are being controlled by the same group. If only there were some way to make an image with curves and vectors.


Why, REAL MATTER is made from SUBATOMIC PARTICLES so we just need to simulate those and whoosh everything is SO EASY then!

…the stuff you get when someone works for three weeks with a 3D program and believes themselves an expert on 50 years of CGI history and 4000 years of mathematics…





We’re just data in an ancestor simulation and what we’re experiencing is a 4d holographic re-projection of a data stored on the surface of an event horizon.


Big Polygon is keeping independents down!

BobbyBob3D, that was some high-quality crazy-talk. Well done.


Do you REALLY think the illuminati chose a “triangle” as their symbol by chance? Not even a quad, a triangle. The mother of all 3D polygons. It’s even on the dollar bill, what more do you need?


new world axis system.

trust no one.