C4D Needs additional primitive types


#1

I vote for MORE. That is, More Primitives for our expanding world of parametric modeling. And I suggest its time for organic primitives…the primitives found in nature.

I’d like prisms, antiprisms, frustums and everyon’es new life-of-the party shape…a SCUTOID.

Yes Scutoids! Just this summer the discovery of Scutoids hit the news and has made quite a splash. How did this elude us for this long?

Scutoids are very common in nature and are VERY cool. It’s bizarre that we only recently have a mathematically conception of it and name for it. The shape, however odd, is a building block of multicellular organisms; complex life might never have emerged on Earth without it!

Check it out here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_NZ1ql8B8Y
When someone asks you what you want in R21…the first thing on your list, don’t forget…is Scutoids. Once we get the primitive we’ll next want a Scutoidal cloner type…because…these babies are all about packing it in.


#2

From a c4d perspective a SCUTOID would be part 5 sided cylinder, part voronoi fracture…and a twist. I would guess there is an infinite variety of possible SCUTOID shapes. but they do follow a rule set.

The scutoid is six-sided at the top, five-sided on the bottom with one triangular side.

I’m half playful with this ‘feature request’. But I’m also half serious. :slight_smile:

If you want to see how one would model 3d print a SCUTOID:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0t2XgVUK9U#fauxfullscreen
There is speculation that future architecture could leverage SCUTOIDs for stronger structures. They could/should be coming to the CAD world… perhaps.

When I look at a stack of these little guys I can’t help but see polygons embracing…or hugging one another. And my skin…all human skin is built up with Scutoids.


#3

If you want to trip out a bit further…you can loosely think of SCUTOIDs as nature’s subsurface deformers…one of nature’s way of creating curved cellular structures.

From Wikipedia:
Scutoid is a prismatoid to which one extra mid-level vertex has been added. This extra vertex forces some of the “faces” of the resulting object to curve.


#4

That scutoid has two curved non-planar surfaces.That’s just wrong!

(Although I am in favour of more primitives… perhaps a Prismatoid primitive with various options.)


#5

How can you talk about scutoids before we even have a teapot built-in?

It’s 2018, how can we pay MSA every year and still rely on third party plugins for such basic and much needed primitives among the real 3D professionals ?

I know many people who have left C4D because of the lack of a decent teapot primitive. At this rate, we’ll get it in 2050 (if we’re lucky) and in the meantime the user base is shrinking by the day. Maxon should get their act together :wink:


#6

Who says “Teapot” must also say “Egg-Spline”! :bounce:


#7

I suspect the teapot is trademarked so unfortunately Maxon needs to rise the price of C4D by a few hundred to afford this mighty symbol of renderosity!


#8

Not really sure how useful the scutoid would be for most users (though it would be cool). Modeling voronoi paterns quickly like that are possible with a few plugins out there (dualgraph from aixsponza and theres that newish one from Merk).

This upcoming new Cyc primitive from GSG looks to be super useful.

I find myself modeling these all the time, and although not difficult to create having a simple setup like this would be welcomed.


#9

Nature seems to disagree. :slight_smile:

Yes a cyc would be useful…and egg…and above all I’d still like a simple line primitive as it would save a few steps…frequently.

I sure hope you all had a chance to watch that video above…especially the ending w/that delightful Spanish mathematician lady explaining the naming of the SCUTOID. What a fun woman!


#10

Haha. As organically powerful as the scutoid is and recognizing we’re only half-serious about this, I would like to say the following:

  1. Having a scutoid primitive would be scu-tacular.

  2. I don’t want MAXON’s development team to spend a single hour on new primitives, including scutoids.

2a) Unless it’s some form of vectacular primitive(or perhaps a fractacular primitive) that you can generate all sorts of random shapes with by changing random seed or something of that nature. (This is related to your more general comment about “organic” primitives.)

  1. I think it’s possible someone at the Labs or CV-Tools Land could cook up some type of solution for those who yearn for scutoidal powers.

#11

We actually do sort of have a spline primitive–the mospline. Add a mospline and then look at the “simple” settings.
Get it to roughly where you want, reduce the steps so not too dense, and make editable then can tweak.


#12

One other thought I had is with respect to organics for things like medical animations, if you already have XP4, the OpenVDB mesher can go a long way in that regard… but also the new OpenVDB tools in R20 + Mograph. Probably many ways there to generate biologic primitives like various types of cells in our body (the strictly non-scutoidinal type obviously).

… I may have a tough time getting through the rest of the week without using the word ‘scutoid’ in a real world conversation. I’ll prounounce it “skew-toid” cuz that’s how I roll.


#13

True, but mospline is not what I’m thinking of. I want a simple spline in one step. And I want it as a parametric object. C4d is for motion graphics first and foremost and it still boggles my mind that there are cubes, spheres, etc…and no simple line/spline object.

Give me parameters for locating Point A, Point B, segment count I can dial In…and a graph for point distribution. (With usual graph presets). As a parametric I might also want a quick easy way to set the anchor point for the line. A or B or middle or via percentage slider. Add a button to reverse path direction. Done.

The whole idea of primitives, IMO, is
-Going from 3-6 clicks to 1
-Establishing a non-destructive work flow
-An alternative to manual manipulation of points/polys

Why not a ‘line’ primitive?


#14

That’s how you skew. :slight_smile:


#15

And while I’m talking about primitives…wouldn’t it be cool if every primitive featured the anchor point as something you could reset/re-align without messing with parent nulls (or breaking the parametric shape)?

I think Maxon should niche c4d as the greatest parametric DCC on the market. To do that they must continue to refine ease of use and speed of use. This would be a big workflow gain.

Adding a parent null just to manipulate the anchor clutters the scene and makes selections more cumbersome. It’s confusing for beginners and requires extra work for veterans.


#16

This would most definitely be welcome. You might want to send a request to Maxon.

However, although not as immediate as a primitive, I use the tracer object in most cases to set up splines that would be hard to position and draw by eye.

I start with positioning nulls where I want them to define the first and end point of a spline. If its in a scene with a lot of geo, I might even use spheres or cubes to help me better see their positions in space. Use snapping to make sure your objects are locked where you wish them to be.

Then I add a tracer and make the 2 objects (nulls or spheres whatever) the links. Switch the mode from “trace paths” to connect all objects" and you have a spline that you can edit via the input objects. Add additonal objects/nulls for the mid points. Then make editable if you wish (or just keep it live and editble as a tracer)


#17

I’ll explore your technique. Thanks!