C4D + Hash Animation Master


#1

Hey All,

Has anyone here had any experiences with Animation Master?

I didnt see FBX support anywhere on the website and their is no demo, but does anyone know if Animation Master works well with C4D? If at all!

Any comments would be a great help as I have tried character animation in C4D using MOCCA and it just seems like TOO much hard work…! Before you say it…NO…Motionbuilder is not an option as it is waaaaay to expensive. (for me anyway! :sad: )

mecha


#2

I dont think it works. Hash uses some non standart objects and technology…


#3

I would stick it out in C4D if you can’t afford Motionbuilder or Messiah:Animate (PC).

If you hate the rigging part, you can go to http://www.c4dportal.com and check out Stray CAT. It’s a pre-rig set up that you fit to your character. $50.

If you don’t mind rigging, Cactus Dan may be releasing CD IK Tools that makes rigging easier. Or there’s ERigger.


#4

I used to own AM before selling it to finance S&T. I had never tried getting a pipeline working although that was my wish. I seem to remember the scene file format for AM is a text file, which would make creating a pipeline easier. I think your main problem is going to be the issue of AM only using Patches for its models.

I seem to remember someone had made a series of plugins for C4D to make its CA tools very similar to AM


#5

Thanks for the replies guys,

Just popped over to the A:M forum and read a few bad things about the direction of Hash that kind of put me off anyway!

I looked at ERigger, it seemed pretty good. Anyone actually tried it, or using it?

mecha


#6

Check out Bonderland, a free (.) and very powerfull CA toolset for C4D. It is IMO much easier to use than Mocca - and comes with preset customizable walk cycles ( really impressive Xpreso work btw, if I have ever seen any!)

I wish some of thses tools find their way int oC4D along the road!
http://c4dplugins.idea-graphics.de/BL/

jp


#7

If the idea is to use AM for animation, you can can export BVH data and C4D can import that. I have read that some use this pipeline though not to Cinema but to another app.


#8

yup, i’m using erigger at the moment and think it’s brilliant. the tuts that come with it give you a pretty good idea of how to set up a character the erigger-way.

i’ve started 3D in animation:master many moons ago and still think its animation tools are brilliant! erigger is pretty close to the animation:master-way of setting up rigs. i’m using bonderland for parts of the rig like the spine and its bonderland-selector-tool for controlling the rig but the rest is pure erigger.

i would suggest to check out the demo of erigger…

talking about demos: isn’t there an a:m-demo with those a:m-handbooks?

[edit] forgot the picture…

that’s the character i’m currently working on for a client. unfortunatly i’m not allowed to post animations, but erigger is behaving very (!!!) well!!


#9

I’d have to agree with CosmicBear. Erigger & Emorpher are a great combo of plugins. I’d go so far as to call them “must have” plugins. The bottom line is that rigging is a complex task, especially if you want a flexible rig. There’s no magical solution. There’s only so far “auto rig” setups can take you. If you truly want the best then you’ll just have to get your hands dirty. There’s nothing inherently wrong with C4D’s character tools. Provided you start with a battle plan, they don’t hold you back (much). They just don’t go out of they’re way to make your life any easier. :slight_smile:


#10

Hey mecha,

I’ve been using AM for five years now and while it has had a lot of problems, its animation tools are the best and easiest I’ve seen and I own messiah and have played around with Motionbuilder/Maya/XSI. I’m working on some CA in C4D right now using Bonderland and EMorpher and while they make character work a lot easier, you still have to use the Cinema character tools/interface which, in contrast to most of its other features, just don’t seem well designed. After finishing it, I think I’ll be sticking with AM for CA work, unless some major changes are made in C4D v9.

Of course, using AM means you’re kind of on an island - it’ll import obj models, but its pretty messy and in general it just doesn’t play well with polygons. There are still some stability problems, although those have been getting better. The renderer isn’t as nice or fast as C4D’s, but that too has improved and the company’s attitude towards its customers is also getting better - this is coming from a guy who is truly bitter about the way he’s been treated by their tech support. I’ve read the thread you mentioned that talked about the direction of the company, but if you read the last couple pages you’ll see that things have changed in the last few months. As much as I love C4D for other things, AM is a great way to go if you’re really interested in character animation


#11

Hey Thor,

Thats exactly the problem I have noticed with A:M. You truly are “on an island” with A:M and thats the main reason I am now looking at ERigger. Shame really, I recently purchased the Character Animation DVD from Jeff Lew and A:M looked great. Oh well!

As idealistic as this sounds I really wanted to try and get character work done in C4D, without jumping around between MotionBuilder / A:M / Messiah / etc. I chose C4D over Lightwave a few years ago because I didnt like the Modeller / Layout (or whatever it was) way of working. Plus, the thought of Maxon actively pushing Motion Builder fills me with a little bit of dread, as I fear they may not put much effort into seriously improving MOCCA in R9 revisions. Maybe im getting paranoid, too much time on Apple forums has got me thinking that the Men In Black behind hardware and software are conspiring against the consumer!

I should get out more!

Thanks for the feedback guys… :thumbsup:

mecha


#12

I’ve been using Hash a little bit mainlyg to inquire into rigging and such, Jef’s DVD really got me intrigued.

I’ve had almost no luck whatsoever with Hash and C4D together though.


#13

I came from Hash Animation:Master.
I have A:M 2004 and love it.
There are some very pretty features. And the workflow ist perfect.
Hair, Dynamics, UV-Editor, very easy texturing, great animation workflow !!!

There are two tools: The SetupMachine (for Maya, too) and the Weightmover.
These the greatest tools you can found for rigging and weighten a mesh to bones !!!
.

A:M use Splines like Nurbs-Objects in C4D.
The Splines knows 5 Point Patches, that is like an 5Point Polygon. Very good to modeling.
And there are Hooks, to change the Mesh-resolution very easy.
But this is the problem, why A:M can’t perfect import 3D-Objects from other 3D-Tools.
And this is because I change the software.
I buy ZBrush2 and love it near same. So easy modeling.
When I want to animate I use Models. But when I must so long modeling bevore I can animate, when it can be so easy like ZBrush I need another 3D-Tool.
There are some Plugins to import polygonobjekte into A:MN-Splines, but when the Splinestructure is not optimally there are many creases at the object.
A:M is near a standalone in 3D.
Setupmachine and Weigthmover are two tools that gives A:M more Power for animation than Maya or 3Ds had.
A:M is slower than other renderers - but is not easy to compare because you can change Light and Shadow Parameters, A:M render in own look, compare the renderpics you can see, A:M is sometimes sensitively with user and crash.
Hash works all the time at A:M and build in new Features and work at more stable.
Many Users know V9 from A:M and this was the most crashing version.

When A:M render I can surf in the web without lose speed, and can modeling in another window with new started A:M - when C4D render the PC sometimes is little frozen, only abbort rendering is fast. Here is A:M slower by abbort. May it is the Hypertheading in my P4.
C4D use all the Power of P4. A:M use not HT and other tools like browser can use other half of HT.

But A:M is V11 now and the chrashes are less.
Near every Week there is and update with bugfixes and sometimes with new features for free.
When you buy A:M you can update near every week to the end of the year!
When there is a new CD 2000/2001/2002/2003/2004 you cant install the new updates.
Then you must buy a new Update for $99.

The price of A:M is very great: $299
You get: dynamic Hair (very nice quality), Dynamics RigidBody and Softbody (Cloth but not perfect calculation), IK, Lippsynch, very good texturing tools, particles (with sprites) and dynamic, Crowds, Radiosity, Softreflection, and many more …

C4D with this features cost near $3000 (Studio Bundle)
I buy C4D now and begin to love it, too!
I see the renderer is faster, the quality of rendering is clear (but when you want to render comic-look A:M renders better, one think so other so).
C4D is more stable and can import other 3D-polygonobjects (logical).
The calculation of softbodies and collisiondection is better.

I don’t know enougth about Mocca and hope there are to less users use it, and this is because I read so less about MoMix and Poses in Mocca.
Ich think Mocca has many features like animation in A:M, but there are maybe less users use it.

This is my experience near all of my 3D.
Here are some of my works with A:M : http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6556
Here are some very good movies makes with A:M :http://amfilms.hash.com/
And here are some VideoTutorials to see the workflow: http://www.hash.com/VM/

I hope I have same fun with C4D PRAY


#14

I am yet another who started off with Animation Master and eventually migrated to C4D during the Hash V9 fiasco. I do own the current version 11 and toy around with it here and there, but it just doesn’t do it for me any more…like a band that I used to love , but never get motivated to listen to again.

Trying to integrate Cinema and Hash will not work, so don’t waste your time trying to export bvh animation over to Cinema, as this is something I tried several times…it is a dead end. I got Motion Builder when it was going for a song and have not looked back! As has been said, there are many nice rigging tools (also check out Cactus Dan’s nice IK solution…which is free) and external character animation apps that work nicely with Cinema.

My main problem was that AM forces you into such a unique modelling and animating mindset that it took a while for me to orientate to the way that all other 3d apps work. Once you learn one standard 3d app it is much easier to learn the next. I started on AM and then learnt Cinema… a big step…Now I am studying Maya formally and it is much easier , now that I know Cinema (of course I prefer Cinema :slight_smile: ) All those things I used to hate about AM…lack of stability, render quality and speed, constant updates, lack of universal standards etc, are Cinema’s strengths…now if only R9 will give me a more useable timeline and dopesheet!

BTW , the last I checked the erigger demo did not work…but eago was going to rectify this situation…


#15

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