C4D Customer Service has gotten weird

#7

@interactiveBoy

You have R20 forever but you also have the option to rent R2x monthly or yearly if there are features you need for a future job. I think you’re in a strong position as long as you keep your R20 system backed up. Using R20 and supplementing it with rentals could provide a more cost effective approach moving forward.

History is littered with good companies that go bad some manage to turn it around. I don’t get the slightest impression that the Maxon management thinks there’s a problem to be addressed.

Many of us have been happy to keep renewing our MSAs because we thought behind the scenes the Core rewrite was going great guns and years of waiting was going to pay off imminently. I think it is beginning to dawn on people that many of us have been guilty of building the core rewrite up to be something that it isn’t. To be completely fair Maxon never promised anything and it’s clear there’s not going to be a vastly better performing C4D anytime soon. It’s only when the lack of development causes people to drift away and there is a significant drop in profit will there be a change of approach. If people keep renewing their subs why should Maxon change? If you can get away with R21 level updates and still people throw money at you then where is the incentive to do better?

The greatest power the consumer has is to not spend their money this is the only thing large corporations listen to.

There are always other options…maybe even better options you haven’t tried yet…

#8

If you wrote in yesterday you probably didn’t hear back because we had our Company Christmas Party. Might need a day to recover. I am sure someone will respond soon. What country are you in? In general you can see on the shop page:

For upgrade pricing, floating licences or volume license purchases please contact your local Maxon representative.

We offer side grades from just about every previous version to Subscription, so the matrix is pretty big, which is why we have you contact us.

Cheers
Dave

#9

Ahh ok that makes sense. I’m in the US.

Guess I’ll just be a little more patient. :wink:

#10

@Infograph I’m definitely tracking what you’re saying.

Truth be told, I didn’t feel like R21 offered anything exciting or “must-have” for my workflow. I had some personal expenses that prevented me from renewing the MSA at the time, and I justified NOT doing it because of the new subscription plan. It’s the first time in years I felt like I didn’t HAVE to upgrade or renew because it’s all moving to subscription anyway, which buys me some time. I can just wait until there’s a must-have reason.

I’m realizing though that it’s a complex universe, having software from various vendors that has to work together.

I wanted to jump on DEM Earth soon, but to take advantage of the new version 4.xx I must have R21. Same with Redshift. I still use it in R20, and most of the features are there, but to take advantage of the nodal material spaces, I need to have R21.

It’s only a matter of time before plugins no longer support R20.

So in hind site, I’m seeing it was less about renewing or moving to subscription due to some desired feature, and more about maintaining compatibility not only with plugins, but with others that I do C4D work with and for.

I won’t make any more scene about this - that really wasn’t my intent. In the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal.

I’m just afraid if I get in a tight situation again and have to cancel a subscription then that’s it and I lose access to my files, plugins, etc.

I do a lot of work, but only a small percentage of it is 3D. So it’s a tough pill to swallow, being held to a subscription.

Again I’ll say “it is what it is!”

Hopefully I’ll hear from them soon and see what my options are.

#11

interactiveBoy if you want to keep your r20 be carefull with any special deals offered. You might loose your R20 License and as you lost your R19 license with the upgrade to R20 you might loose the license for any perpetual license.
So get some % off for subscription for being R20 licenseholder (and loosing that) might be not that much of a good deal.

#12

Was Dave’s recent enigmatic tweet done at that Christmas party? I liked it.

#13

Nope the tweet was before the party :wink:

#14

Jops, the deals from R20 -> Subscription have no impact on r20 ownership.

#15

I totally understand where you’re coming from.

There are two of us who own the company and while I stopped the MSA a few releases ago my partner kept our second license up to date so we have R20.

It’s a relatively stressful business swapping software especially after such a very long time. McGavran will be banking on many thinking it’s easier just to swallow the unpalatable situation of Subscriptions than go elsewhere. I don’t blame anyone coming to that conclusion, work is stressful enough without adding to it.

One thing I wished I had done was to prepare for the eventuality that C4D went t*ts up. I wish I’d had an escape plan and had been learning a.n.other DCC to make the transition when necessary. I’d give anyone that advice for free.

The Fear of Losing Files is what makes the Subscription offer such an insidious proposition. Walk into it with your eyes open and make sure you export your models or animations as files that can be read from other software. No company should ever have the power to own your own IP because you either choose not to continue with Subs or more worryingly if you, for whatever reason, can no longer to afford your Subs. I refuse to give any company that domain over me or my company unless they’re paying me!

There will be many who think what’s all the fuss about Subs and not give a single f…

#16

That is very welcome news. I look forward to talking to someone at Maxon about my options!

#17

Last time we talked you told me, that “transition deals” will transition the perpetual license into a subscription and as it is a transition the perpetual is not valid afterwards. Was this just for R21 perpetual?

#18

Jops I do seem to remember that they were saying that it applied to R21. For those that did the MSA to get R21, they could get a deal on subscription by cashing in the perpetual and getting 2 years of sub for about the price of one year of MSA. Or something similar to that.

My situation is different, so I’m curious to know what my options will be.

And I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing something that would make me lose r20. At least I’ll always have that to fall back on should I need it.

#19

If you got R21 via MSA and want to transition that for an extra discount you can by handing in the perpetual. There are also discounts where you don’t transition. Of course if you were on MSA the last version you got was the one you own.
Cheers
Dave

#20

Thank you Dave for clarification. I am sorry to bring this up when ever I see that people unshure about discounts and subscription. I consider this to be a very serious thing because with perpetual updates (like it always was) you just hold a license for the last version. and when you loose this in a transition to subscription you have no perpetual left what so ever.

interactiveBoy I hope you get a good deal :slight_smile:

best regards
Jops

#21

And, just in case anyone’s wondering what that tweet was…

“U haVe been heard…”

Note the capped letters. :slight_smile:

#22

Isn’t this just old news dressed up as new news?

We were told after the R17 debacle that UV tools and body paint were being worked on only no one saw fit to release anything.

I never see messages like ‘OK we’ve heard you’ as anything other than disingenuous. Frankly, it would’ve been impossible for Maxon to be oblivious to the cacophony of requests for updated UV and painting tools over the years.

We’ve heard you…in this case translates as, we’ve finally got round to it. Nobody hold their breath though…

#23

Jeez, cheer up. Is there anything they could say on that front that would make you happy?

For my part I missed the significance of the capitalised letters and just thought Dave was getting down and funky with the kool Gen Y kidz by rocking some emoji speak. But if he’s hinting UV goodness then - just a hunch - you’ll be seeing something good on that front in the next update or so. Otherwise why hint at it right now?

The mind boggles at what sort of saucy memes they’ll be posting when they want to hint at updates to Bodypaint.

#24

Cynical marketing should be met with cynical responses.

Anyway, it’s high time I left this forum. Who do I contact to have this account closed?

#25

Don’t leave! You are actually very knowledgeable in C4D, and I’ve seen you help a lot of people on here. But I guess if you’re leaving C4D behind and moving on to greener pastures, I can understand why you’d want to just drop this forum.

Regarding the cynicism: It has literally been YEARS since Bodypaint and the dreaded UV tools have been left to rot. I understand the cynicism. I let my cynicism get the better of me when I started this thread, but I do think it’s interesting to hear about others’ situations and how they handle transitions like this, which is why I wanted to be open about it.

For what it’s worth, I asked about what my options were for perpetual and none were given. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I just think those days are basically over, and I’d have a steep price to pay to get R21 in perpetual form since I missed the MSA renewal - again, I think that’s really bad customer service, but their game, their rules.

Since I missed the MSA opportunity, my only real option to continue with C4D is through subscription. They do have a tolerable price for initiating a subscription if you missed the boat with an expired MSA.

I’m not posting it here because every case is different, and I don’t want to misinform.

#26

Haha, Dave’s four word good-news tweet counts as ‘cynical marketing’? Infograph, cheer up mate and then get over yourself while you do it, it’s nearly Christmas. Hopefully once you leave you’ll spare your next online haunt the moody bitter sulks you seem stuck on here.