Braider Beta

#57

I wasn’t sure what you were talking about so thanks for clarifying:-)

Sorry you didn’t like the pictures I did - I’ve only had the pluggin for about a day and am still learning what the controls do and making a visual record as I experiment with them. They did take longer to do than a couple of cups of coffee though.

I usually need to feel a little more inspired or more comfortable with the tools if I am to spend extended amounts of time working on an image. If this isn’t acceptable for the beta I understand and feel free to give me the boot then:-)

By the way, giving someone hell (or criticizing them publically) for not performing to some imagined standard usually doesn’t get them too excited about spending extra time on something:-)

Anyway, I understand you would like to see your tool used to it’s fullest as I can see you’ve put in lots of work to develop it - I’ll keep trying but you’ll have to promise me no more grumpy comments if I don’t quite live up to your standards. LOL

#58

Looking for promo images already huh :wink:

Got an interface shot ?

R

#59

Rueben…

Here’s a shot of the interface.

#60

Braider doesn’t actually create the rendered cylinders you see, that job belongs to Superlines, a shader designed to work with Braider’s line output. So without actual geometry, raytracing and GI results are going to be limited. Working on that. Braider analyzes its child’s geometry and generates a series of polylines based off the geometry’s topology, Superlines provides the cylinders complete with falloff and material properties.

Deformations should work just fine with Braider and yes, Braider possesses reactive capabilities. Check out some of Ian Water’s work earlier above.

#61

Ok thanks,

And superlines doesn’t work with wiremaker ?

One thing i like about Fiberforge is it can output lines or polygons, didn’t realize Braider was lines only…

R

#62

Superlines will work with anything that generates lines. Trestle, Wiremaker, Braider, standard polygonal geometry in wireframe mode, dxf polylines, Revolver…etc.

Braider is just a method to generate source lines/curves. These curves can be utilized by any of our geometry engines and we have more tools in the works. :slight_smile: So stay tuned.

#63

Igors I know it is totally OffTopic but I have asked a new question in the general thread on how to make a slide effect. If you have some time to answer me if this is possible in the current EIAS raytracing. Thanks.

#64

We promise :wink: And, of course, posted images are professional works. But from Paul Sherstobitoff we can expect more, much more!
BTW: “B” = Bear, right?

#65

Hi, Reuben

Well, Braider is a model plug-in and generally it’s not responsible for any render aspect. As Brian said, it is just a method to generate source lines/curves. So, we can answer for “how particles react to GI”.

They don’t react at all. A ray cannot hit a particle cause it’s a pseudo-geometry has no square. Thus particles cannot cast RT/GI shadows. EI automatically removes particles from GI calculation.

Note also that other possible ways instead of SuperLines (like a creation of real or virtual geometry), would formally work with GI and/or radiosity but unacceptable in practice - illumination calculation is very and very slow for such models. This kind of geometry requires a special technique known as “deep shadows”. But it’s another story.

There are no problems to deform Braider’s output, here lines work absolute same as a polygon model. Some problems appear if the plug-in input (child group) is deformed, in this case you need to use UV space to stabilize. See “spaghetti” animation Uwe posted.

Yes, even it’s a modest feature. Reactive can be used as a clip map to make holes or/and as an amplifier for output chain of segments.

#66

Hi, Uwe

We think the right way is to give user a choice how to generate output UVs and let he constructs animations (noticed above and others) as he wants by using clip maps. So, we plan to add “Generate UVs” popup with:

  • Inherit UVs (plug-in copies UV’s of its child group(s));
  • Line U (as it is now, each chain is mapped into 0…1 U-range);
  • Long Line U (chains are mapped sequentially, first into 0…1, second into 1…2 etc. U-ranges);
  • Lines U/V (same as “Line U” but each chain has individual V);

Also new path modes “vector U” and “vector V” are planned (create chains by using child’s UVs)

Also the plug-in should report error if child UVs are requested but not found.

Other/more opinions/considerations?

#67
  • Inherit UVs (plug-in copies UV’s of its child group(s));
  • Line U (as it is now, each chain is mapped into 0…1 U-range);
  • Long Line U (chains are mapped sequentially, first into 0…1, second into 1…2 etc. U-ranges);
  • Lines U/V (same as “Line U” but each chain has individual V);

Also new path modes “vector U” and “vector V” are planned (create chains by using child’s UVs)

Also the plug-in should report error if child UVs are requested but not found.

as far as i understand it my suggested sequence mode would translate to Long Line U, right? sounds good to me! :slight_smile:

#68

Hi, Uwe

Yes, but it’s more flexible IMO

#69

Braider beta 2:

  • fixed bug occurred if “offset” > 0 is used together with circular (closed) chains;

  • added different UV generation modes (to animate lines appearance via clip maps)

#70

Admiring the work done by Paul S. I can see some uses for that pluggin.

On the blue shapes, was it just the Braider settings that were different?

On the Red letter, Did braider come up with any of the pattern on the letter or did it just add a wire to the pattern.

SH

#71

"Admiring the work done by Paul S. I can see some uses for that pluggin.

On the blue shapes, was it just the Braider settings that were different?

On the Red letter, Did braider come up with any of the pattern on the letter or did it just add a wire to the pattern."

Mostly the braider settings were different on the blue but mesh density plays a large role in braider-look density.

On the red ‘B’ the patteren is all braider - the B is comprised of all quads (though seems they are triangulated but not visable that way to camera or animator) and braider takes that input and with some control settings output the interesting pattern.

Paul

#72

Braider updates have been seeded to beta testers.

#73

yes,
BUT rendering takes longer.

at the moment i have some problems with the UVs.
take the wire-girl project, enable UVs for braider, add a map (i took a simple clip map), now, do you see any geometry in the texture placement window? i am not. the map has some strange projection settings like x=0.002, y=1, z=0.002.
the base geometry has no UVs, does this affect the generation of braiders own UVs?
rendering takes a big hit with the clip map.
without clip ca. 20 sec/frame
with clip < 10 min/frame
i guess much overlapping stuff is no good. :frowning:
for simpler projects it works as expected.

#74

Hi, Uwe

Hmm… maybe: YES, but… :slight_smile:

Yesterday we’ve also found this problem, common for EI plug-ins: “UV bounds” (used for texture align) aren’t updated automatically if a plug-in re-generates its UV’s. Use switching OFF/ON of “Use UV space” or “Normalize” checkboxes in Group Window, after this align works Ok.

Well, clip maps are still much faster than RT/GI :slight_smile: Essentially… your methods to animate lines appearing are rational, but please agree: the proposed set is not a completed/final one. What if user wants an animation like “in radial way” or “strip by strip” or “random spots” or… there are a lot of variants, really. Geometry never will do what clip map does (sorry for banal sentence :slight_smile: )

#75

Mostly the braider settings were different on the blue but mesh density plays a large role in braider-look density.

On the red ‘B’ the patteren is all braider - the B is comprised of all quads (though seems they are triangulated but not visable that way to camera or animator) and braider takes that input and with some control settings output the interesting pattern.

Paul

__Thanks for the info Paul!

#76

Hey one more question. Did you use Braider and Trestle together to obtain the images?

SH