Hi.
A Scale Like constraint works like this: Apply Scale Like constraint to bone1. Dab the eyedropper onto bone2. Select bone2 and type in S to evoke the scale manipulator. Use it to increase or decrease the size of bone2. Bone1 will change size, too.
I like answering the easy question. 
Sincerely,
Carl Raillard
Yah, pretty self explaintory really.
I must have been doing something, wrong since I could not see a change when I moved the bone around.
-Duh
I have a new stewwwped question that I am going to post now.
( on A:M exporting )
This should be an easy one as well.
I could just take your entire setup and stuff it into my models face by scaling it around I suppose. Would this work ?
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work…I haven’t tried it yet though. I think that you would have to make new poses for the limits on the up/down and left/right bones at the very least. It’s on my list of experiments to try.
Since my model is a female without a drooping jowl, I have left those bones out for now. ( should I still add them ?)
You could probably leave them out…it might add a little to the cheek stretching, but I don’t think the jowls would be absolutely necessary (or the wattle bone).
Perhaps in the next tutoruial you could create a super simlified model with less bones.
That’s what I’m going to try to do…it’s still going to be a lot of bones, but it’s just the same thing done a lot of times.
Another thing that would help us noobies would be a simlified expaination of what the constraints do. Perhaps you could put up a visual explaination of what certain constraints do in .gif form. (The lip pucker pose .gif that you posted is a good example )
I’m thinking about making it a video tutorial…so, hopefully it’ll cover all of the bases. Then I’ll have to see if it can be hosted at AMFilms. I’m going to try to make it as efficient as possible so that the bandwidth impaired (like myself) won’t have a tough time downloading it, at least that’s the goal.
You know that ‘light bulb’ moment that you were talking about ?
I think my ‘light’ is burning brighter now that I have been crash-coursing constraint set ups.
You might could say I am currently opperating at 2 Watts vs. 1/2 W.
This stuff is really clever.
BTW, how many constraints can you have on a single bone before you run into problems ?
Cheers
You know that ‘light bulb’ moment that you were talking about ?
I think my ‘light’ is burning brighter now that I have been crash-coursing constraint set ups.
Very cool, Vegan! It just takes a few times looking at something sometimes…I’m glad you like it.
BTW, how many constraints can you have on a single bone before you run into problems ?
As long as the constraints don’t conflict, you shouldn’t have a problem…I don’t think there is a limit on the number.
I’m getting really close to finishing up the tutorial…I know, it’s been a couple of months, but (if everything goes right) I should have it done soon. Best guess, a week. I’ve improved a couple of things on the rig that bothered me and I’m going to have a downloadable head for people to mess with and tear apart.
Something that would really be appreciated in the tutorial would be visual example of what certain constraints do.
I think a lot of new users are confused since the new manual does not provide examples of ‘what does what’ in regards to constraints.
Something that would really be appreciated in the tutorial would be visual example of what certain constraints do.
I’ll cover the constraints used and a basic explanation of each at the beginning of the tute.
Sweet. I can’t wait t ocheck it out when you get it done. I’m willing to give it a “test” drive if you’re not ready to release it. 
A new question for you : Are you supposed to set up constraints for the bones in an action, then proceed to assign your bones / set cp weights in bones mode,
or should you do this in reverse order ?
I’m finding that when I place a constraint onto a bone that already has CPs assigned, the mesh gets messed up when the bone ‘snaps’ into position.
You are assigning CPs in bones mode and setting your constraints in a pose …right ?
Thanks
One more thing : From what I have read, versions of A:M from 11.0 onwards have a bug that screws up the CP weighting feature .
I have had this happen myself BTW.
Is there a fix available ?
I use version 11.0 t because I like the interface better for use on a tablet PC
( No keyboard for those shortcut keys when in tablet mode )
I’m finding that when I place a constraint onto a bone that already has CPs assigned, the mesh gets messed up when the bone ‘snaps’ into position.
If you click on the compensate button (it looks like two boxes stacked with a third box knocked at a different angle) the bone shouldn’t do that. Select the bone in the pose, click the compensate button then select the constraint you want to apply.
A new question for you : Are you supposed to set up constraints for the bones in an action, then proceed to assign your bones / set cp weights in bones mode,
or should you do this in reverse order ?
First, set up your constraints, I generally put numbers in that aren’t going to be the final numbers as place holders that seem like they would be close.
I assign CP’s that I know are 100% controlled by a single bone in bones mode for the model and guess influences on some bones…although sometimes I assign everything to a neutral bone in the model’s bones mode (in the case of a face, I use the head bone) then I open an action, move bones around to see what needs to be changed (constraint percentages, CP weighting, sometimes ending up having to fix the model’s splines if I didn’t model well) and adjust the CP weighting in that action. Initially, any influence I take off of a bone I apply to the neutral bone, later that influence might be transferred to another bone if I find it needs it. The weighting of the bones needs to equal 100%, anything you don’t assign will be divided up by the program, that’s why I use the neutral bone. Any CP weighting you change in an action applies to the model and won’t be lost when you close the action. As you go along, you’ll have to move things in a direction, adjust everything until it looks right, move things in a different direction, adjust for that, etc. Then once you think everything is right you start making poses, that usually exposes more CP’s that need adjusting…so, it’s really just trying something, adjusting and repeating. It can be tedious, but you can get some good results. Once I get the CP weighting finished, if there’s anything that can’t be corrected otherwise, I use smartskin.
One more thing : From what I have read, versions of A:M from 11.0 onwards have a bug that screws up the CP weighting feature .
I have had this happen myself BTW.
Is there a fix available ?
I’ve been using 11.0t, it hasn’t given me any problems (there may be issues that I just haven’t come across though). I have had no problems in the 11.1 versions with CP weighting, but, when I go to smartskin after applying CP weighting they give me problems. Hash just put out 11.1f today, so, maybe that will fix it…I’m downloading it right now.
Thanks again.
I notice that a bone such as something like ’ mouth corner LR ’ will have a child bone called 'mouth corner UD ’ located in exactly the same spot.
How do you assign CPs to both bones if the CPs have to be shared by both bones ?
I notice that a bone such as something like ’ mouth corner LR ’ will have a child bone called 'mouth corner UD ’ located in exactly the same spot.
How do you assign CPs to both bones if the CPs have to be shared by both bones ?
In the case of the mouth LR and mouth UD bones, there isn’t any geometry assigned to them unless I did it incidentally…I think there were a couple of CP’s in there that I did that to. The co-locating of those bones is so that the arc of the mouth works right. I assigned the geometry of the mouth to the geometry bones that are labeled like “mouth_corner_right_geom”, they have a “translate to” constraint to the targets (mouth_corner_right_target) that are on the end of the UD bones (mouth_corner_right_ud), which are the children of the LR bones (mouth_corner_right_lr). The LR bones only move the portion of the mouth they are associated with left and right, the UD bones only move it up and down, but, since the UD bones are the children of the LR bones you get both up/down and left/right. The targets are on the end of the UD bones to give the geometry bones something to translate to (that gives them the ability to move out/in from the targets since they have the “translate to” constraint set at 90%), then, the geometry bones have the actual geometry attached to them.
To assign a CP to more than one bone, open a new Action, in muscle mode select the CP or CP’s you want to assign, right mouse click and select “Edit CP Weights”. The control points will be in a box to the left, whichever bone or bones are highlighted will show the percentage of control of the bones assigned to them. You can change the percentages, change bones that are controlling the points, delete a weight or balance the percentages of the selected or connected CP’s.
There’s a “Tech Talk” that Hash has on their forums that goes into more detail on CP weighting.
[QUOTE=itsjustme]I assigned the geometry of the mouth to the geometry bones that are labeled like “mouth_corner_right_geom”, they have a “translate to” constraint to the targets (mouth_corner_right_target) that are on the end of the UD bones
So the only bones that have Cps assigned are the ones labeled " _geom " ?
The rest of the bones are control bones.
Did I understand you right ?
Thanks again.
Edit : When I open the ‘Bertramfacerig’ model file in A:M, I don’t see any bones listed as ‘_geom’ bones.
All the hidden bones have been exposed, but I’m still not seeing them :shrug:
When I open the ‘Bertramfacerig’ model file in A:M, I don’t see any bones listed as ‘_geom’ bones.
All the hidden bones have been exposed, but I’m still not seeing them
Ooops, sorry about that, I thought that the “_geom” was one of the conventions I was using when I made that rig…that’s what I’m doing now…I’m absent minded sometimes. The bones that I tied the lip geometry to on that rig are the lip bones which you can find as children of the “mouthpuckerlower” and “mouthpuckerupper” bones which are children of the “mouthpuckermain” bone which is a child of the “head” bone.
The lips are pretty much just tied to those bones, but the rest of the face is tied to the bones that seem like they would control that section…“rightcheek” for the right cheek, etc. The post about the rig on the Hash forums has images showing the CP weighting, that should give you a better idea of what is tied to where. The naming convention I’m using now is more like the “mouth_corner_left_ud” type of thing. Give me until sometime next week, I’ll have a sample head posted that you can tear apart (it’s the one that’ll be in the tutorial)…and I’ve improved a few things on it.
[QUOTE=itsjustme]The bones that I tied the lip geometry to on that rig are the lip bones which you can find as children of the “mouthpuckerlower” and “mouthpuckerupper” bones which are children of the “mouthpuckermain” bone which is a child of the “head” bone.
QUOTE]
So the children of the childs’ bone have a parent which had children with the pucker bone to create a child of the head bone … but that bone is tied to a child of the parent bone of the lip bone which produced little children that all had little puckers .
… Huh ?
… No really I’ll get it.
( But I know other folks are going to be confused out of their minds till you finish the tutorial. )
It’s not the tutorial yet (I’m still working on that…I’ll have it soon), but, I have posted a project file with a rigged (and unrigged) head on the Hash forums here: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13963
Tear it apart, stress test it, etc. Hopefully, I’ll be done with the tutorial in a day or two. If you find a glaring problem with it, I’ll fix it and repost.
Fantastic work ! Thanks a million for all of the hard work.
I noticed you don’t have an e-mail listing in your profile.
I wanted to say thanks for all the hard work ( basically what I just said here ) but I didn’t want to clutter up this thread .
My e-mail is cgreality@yahoo.com BTW
Edit : I played around some with your model today . I had started to create a copy of your rig from scratch, but then began asking myself WHY I was doing all of the work when you have already gone through the trouble of doing it . 
I deleted your mesh and imported my mesh over it . I deleted the relationship folder and began moving around bones to fit my ladys face.
Just as a quick test for fun, I created a new pose and saw that her top lip jutted way out, while her bottom lip sort of caved into her face. Hmmm…any idea what I could be doing wrong ?
The only bones that I had assigned CPs at that point were around the lips, ( non weighted at the time )
Much to my surprise ( and delight ) I saw that moving the sliders back and forth still seems to sort of want to work, eventhough the mesh was entirely different and all the cp weight data had been deleted.
I can now see the advantage that a bone rig has over just making pose sliders with moving CPs. ( You can re-use the pose sliders on different models ! :buttrock: )
This is 'old hat ’ to you folks - but news to me !
Just as a quick test for fun, I created a new pose and saw that her top lip jutted way out, while her bottom lip sort of caved into her face. Hmmm…any idea what I could be doing wrong ?
I haven’t tried adapting this rig to another face without starting from scratch, but, if I did, what I would do (don’t change or delete the relationships yet) is move the origin of the mouth UD/LR bones to where they are in the center of the mouth on the “X” and “Y” axes and with the “Z” point being at the head bone (all of those bones should have the same origin point), then, move the ends of those LR/UD bones to the pivot point of the group of points that are each area of the lip (select the points on that section of lip and hit the “R” key, if you have the “show manipulator properties” checked you’ll see the pivot coordinates displayed or you could see it under “properties”), move the mouth targets and lip bones to where they are sitting on the ends of the LR/UD bones (on the same pivot point) and make sure that all of the bones maintain a “0” rotation on the “Z” axis (all of the bones in this rig are like that to make it easier).
Once you’ve done that, move the rest of the bones to where they should be (nose bones in the nose, etc)…use the rigged head as a guide for that, and make sure that every bone has a “0” rotation on the “Z” axis. Then, you’ll have to move sliders around to see if you have to change some of the percentages of some of the constraints. For the mouth, go down to the individual UD/LR relationships, that will make the higher stacked relationships change as well…so, if you have say one LR bone that goes too far in one direction, you would go into that bone’s LR relationship (which would be under the individual LR folder). Poses like the upper_lip_ud is built from the percentages of the upper_lip_right_ud and upper_lip_left_ud which are built from the percentages of the individual upper lip UD bones being set to their percentages.
I hope that was clear…if you need more clarification, I’ll do my best to help. I’m curious about adapting an already made rig like this as well…like I said, I haven’t tried that yet. I’m planning on trying to automate the rigging process, but, the tutorial is coming first…everything takes time, unfortunately.
I just snapped to the face problems you were experiencing…you may just be having that happen because of the points that aren’t assigned yet. Hide everything that isn’t assigned to see how that moves, then as you assign points make them visible…it should make it easier to work with.