Bertram's face rig

#55

Finish that Tut. I’m also a “Show me” kind of person. A tut would help alot.

#56

David, I’m going to try the new set-up today, but was wondering if you could list the constraints and their percentages that you use in this rig.

I know I can open up the folders to find this information, but I’m not sure which bones have constraints and which folders to open to get to the info.

I realize this is asking a lot, so no hurries what-so-ever on the time it takes.

If I keep running into constraint problems, I’ll set them up myself to get a more 'hands on approach ’ to the problem . I need to learn what they do anyways ! :thumbsup:

Thanks again ! It’s exciting seeing my model move.

#57

What are you having problems with ? Maybe I can confus… uhh … help you some.

#58

Okay, here are a few:

  1. All lip bones= “Translate to” corresponding lip targets at 90% (no compensate)

  2. wattle= “orient like” jaw 75% (with compensate)

  3. cheek= “aim at” nostril target 60% (no compensate)

  4. jowl= “aim at” nostril target 70% (no compensate)

  5. nose_center_left/right= “orient like” nostril 80% (with compensate), “translate to” nose_lower_center 40% (with compensate)

  6. nose_lower_center= “translate to” upper_center_geom 100% (with compensate), “translate limit” 0 on ‘x’ and ‘z’ and ‘y’ limit dependent on model.

  7. nose_main= “translate to” upper_center_geom 20% (with compensate), “translate limit” 0 on ‘x’ and ‘z’ and ‘y’ limit dependent on model.

  8. nostril_base_left/right= “translate to” upper_left/right_3_geom 20% (with compensate), “translate to” upper_left/right_2_geom 25% (with compensate), “translate limit” 0 on ‘x’ and ‘z’ and ‘y’ limit dependent on model.

  9. nostril_left/right= “aim at” nostril_target_left/right 50% (no compensate), “euler limits” on ‘y’ dependent on model.

  10. ear_left/right= “aim at” nostril_target_left/right 5% (no compensate).

These numbers might have to be adjusted depending on your model, but, they can serve as a starting point. Also, I left out any of the constraints that are dependent on the model’s dimensions like the mouth_ud/lr. Hope this helps.

#59

Thanks for the effort David.

I think I’ll go ahead and set up the constraints ( vs. use the read-made version ) since this will help me learn what is going on.
I realize that I will have to re-create all of the pose sliders, but I would have had to modify them anyways.

I have to admit something ( something embarrasing really ) : I have avoided animating anything in A:M due to my lack of knowledge regarding constraints. I actually thought that all models behaved like those without limits ( movement coonstraints )
For example, I thought that the ‘Knight’ model was fully rigged for animation - the best their was.
I soon became frustrated with his limbs flying every-which-way, and thought I was just doing it all wrong.
Now that I think I have a better understanding of constraints, I have a renewed interest in animation - and A:M is looking better all the time.
( I even purchased Jeff Lews DVD yesterday. )

Thanks for posting this project and sticking with me through all the gripes that I have had with it.

#60

Now that I think I have a better understanding of constraints, I have a renewed interest in animation - and A:M is looking better all the time.

Very cool.

Thanks for posting this project and sticking with me through all the gripes that I have had with it.

Your efforts have helped me decide that I should automate this process, so, thank you. The tutorial should be up by the beginning of next week…I’ll give you a “heads up” as to where to download it when I know for sure.

#61

David - I meant to get back with you on this. Sorry.

I think it would be great to have the color setup as you have described above.
Having the face color coordinated is a fantastic idea.

Having the lip ( geometry ) bones the same color is fine, but what would be even better in my opinnion would be to have them a different shade - this way it is easier to see the CP weighting influences.

It would really help a lot.

#62

Can you post the rigged head here?

#63

It’s on the first post ( from " itsjustme " ) at the top of the last page. ( page 4 )

( The zip file ) :slight_smile:

#64

The file size limit on this forum (100k) prevents me from posting the rigged head, the file Vegan is referring to is the face rig without the forehead and eyebrow controls and without geometry. The rigged head is on the Hash thread…the version you’ll want is called “tutehead_rigged_v2.zip”. To sign up for the Hash forum (free), go here.

From Vegan’s attempts to import the rig into another character I have come to the conclusion that the easiest method at the moment to install this rig would be from scratch…although I’m presently working on automating the process. The tutorials on making this rig have been submitted and I have it on good authority that they will be up this weekend (as far as I know, here), sorry it has taken so long.

#65

Whuups !

Soory 'bout that.

David, I have just begun to redo the setup from scratch. The problem that I ran into with the automated setup is that a lot of those constraints are buried and it takes a long time to fine tune them in an action.

How do I ‘tack down’ the bones along with their children ? I find that each time I open the model, I have to expand them all.

As you stated, it does indeed seem easier to set the constraints up from scratch.

Thanks again for you efforts. I really look forward to the tutorial.

BTW, I modeled my character with her mouth partly open. It seems that this means the rig has to be modified somewhat compared to a model with a closed mouth. ( This also explains the problem that I was having with the cheeks pulling in too far.

#66

Whuups !

Soory 'bout that.

Nothing to be sorry about, Vegan, without your attempts I wouldn’t know as quickly that I need to automate the installation (which is my current project)…you’ve been a tremendous help. Sorry you went through the problems you did. Hopefully, the tutorial will help…once again, sorry it has taken me so long on that.

How do I ‘tack down’ the bones along with their children ? I find that each time I open the model, I have to expand them all.

I don’t know of any method to keep everything opened up…there may be a way, I just don’t know it.

I modeled my character with her mouth partly open. It seems that this means the rig has to be modified somewhat compared to a model with a closed mouth. ( This also explains the problem that I was having with the cheeks pulling in too far.

The example head I rigged has a partially opened mouth…that shouldn’t make a difference, but importing the rig from the sample head into another model with different dimensions would cause problems until everything is reset. That involves changing the percentages on everything and resetting the compensate on the bones that have it…almost as much work as building it from scratch and harder to keep track of.

Hopefully, watching the tutorials will help…if I left something out, just flag me down and I’ll try to answer any questions.

#67

David, don’t worry about the time this has taken.

I for one needed this little ‘kick in the tail’ to get back to even looking at bone setups.

Now that I have a better understanding of constraints, I’m eager to actually animate something.

I even purchased Jeff Lews DVD a couple of days ago.

I always go overboard on things and give myself grief. Rather than using the K.I.S.S. method of doing things and just animating something simple like a ball, I insisted on creating a high patch count dragon/dino creature with dual layer wings. ( I’m never 'good enough " )
I could never seem to get my bones set right and always had the top layer of the wing going through the bottom layer.
I quickly became frustrated, and gave up. ( And I wonder why I fail at everything I do ! )

Unfortunately … I’m doing that sort of thing again. The model that I am working on now is ridiculously ( sp ) high in its patch count. I want to make my model as photo real as possible.

What does this have to do with your rig ?
-Well I believe those that use your setup with less splinage will not run into the same problems as I have had with my high patch count model.

Thanks for posting the rig. It really is brilliant !

#68

itsjustme tells us this:
The file size limit on this forum (100k) prevents me from posting the rigged head, the file Vegan is referring to is the face rig without the forehead and eyebrow controls and without geometry.

Why so little? It can be no problem buying a cheap harddisk?
Why cannot cgtalk provide this - the A:M Forums is a product Forum - it is not free - I think it was better cgtalk could provide the same possibilities as A:M Forums - 1 MegaByte to upload or better 5 MegaBytes and we could upload not only models but also animations.
Will cgtalk give this opportunity soon or what is the policy - thinking here? Who is the thinker? Who is the owner? Is cgtalk free or…?

#69

ninewe,

asuming your not just trolling…

cgtalk is currently free and paid for and set up by the good folks at Ballistic Media Pty Ltd.

While there are plans afoot to help subsidise its costs etc through a membership scheme, Ballistic have at their expense established cgtalk as probably one of the most succesful and best computer graphics communities on the web. While 100K limit may not seem much - when you expand that through the number of users, forums and threads its a large volume of data. and no its not simply a case of a cheap hardisk when your supporting this size of community…

David’s rig is accessible via the hash forums (btw - thanks david, this is a great resource and the thread here and tuts will be a huge help to beginner AM users like myself) which is available to most if not all AM users. If you can;t get access ask here and I am sure someone would be happy to mail it to you… or point you to another host site if there is one.

Might be worth pointing out that the about part of CGtalk actually gives you all your answers to your questions in the last section of the post.

cheers,

Phillip

#70

It seems to me that you know a lot about cgtalk - perhaps you are working for them - because I can not understand how you can defend 100 kbyte. Or perhaps you are working for Hash?

I think better David could post his rig here - and cgtalk would become more popular - do they not want to become poplular?

If A:M can afford 1 Mb - why cannot cgtalk afford 1 Mb - and disc capacity can be of no problem.

No - I believe it is old standards - that is the explanation.

#71

I always go overboard on things and give myself grief.

That sums up a lot of my projects…it’s probably an epidemic. :slight_smile:

What does this have to do with your rig ?
-Well I believe those that use your setup with less splinage will not run into the same problems as I have had with my high patch count model.

Actually, I think any model would have had the same problems you had since I believe most of it was because of the compensate offset on some of the bones. The extra splineage will add to the weighting process, but not by much (I wouldn’t think). Don’t beat yourself up, Vegan. If it’s the same head model I saw from you a while back, you’re doing good work.

If A:M can afford 1 Mb - why cannot cgtalk afford 1 Mb - and disc capacity can be of no problem.

Well ninewe, the same could be said of me…I should have my website up to host it, but, I haven’t gotten to that yet. That will happen, when I get time.

(btw - thanks david, this is a great resource and the thread here and tuts will be a huge help to beginner AM users like myself)

Not a problem, Phillip. If you have any questions after watching both parts of the tutorial (once they become available…they still aren’t up, but the weekend isn’t over yet), I’ll do my best to answer them.

#72

Because there are 100,000s of people on CGTalk. The Hash forums have at most 5000, right now. AND Hash forums are devoted to a product sold by the company. CGtalk is not supported in quite this way.

That face rig looks great. I really like the video that showed the mouth controls. Seems very useful.

Zack

#73

Okay, Rodney Baker was kind enough help me get the two parts of the tutorial posted this evening…THANK YOU, RODNEY!

The Hash thread that gives the download links is here.

#74

WOW ! What a tremendous effort you’ve put into this.

Bravo !!

What do we owe you ?

Thanks again !

( !!! )