Bertram's face rig


#51

Thanks. For some reason the file is still currupt here at CGTalk, but works fine at the Hash forum.

I can see I have been missing a lot of discussion that could be helpful over at the hash forum.

Thanks again.

Edit : It looks like your modification worked ! Thanks !
BTW, Where are the constraints in the rig ? ( I can’t seem to find them. )
Surely the constraints are already set …right ?
Also when you set CP weights, you say that you do this manually - how ?
Do you assign CP weights first and then edit them manually later ? ( Why does it not show that the bones have a CP weight in the PWS then ? :shrug: )

One change I would suggest in the rig would be to have the top lip bones ( the LR/UD bones ) a different color from the bottom bones. Also the side bones could be a different color as well ( white is good )


#52

Edit : It looks like your modification worked ! Thanks !

Cool, I’m hoping to post a version with the new forehead/eyebrow controls soon…everything takes longer than I expect though.

BTW, Where are the constraints in the rig ? ( I can’t seem to find them. )
Surely the constraints are already set …right ?

The constraints are in the “Relationships/User Properties Relationships” folder…there are a lot of sub-folders. They are set, but, you’ll probably have to modify a few settings depending on the character you hook up to the rig…I went into some detail on the Hash forums here (the May 8th entry).

Also when you set CP weights, you say that you do this manually - how ?
Do you assign CP weights first and then edit them manually later ? ( Why does it not show that the bones have a CP weight in the PWS then ?

First, I “ballpark” the CP’s by just assigning them to the bone that I think will have the most influence in bones mode, then I hide everything except the section of the face I want to work on, open a new Action, move things around manually and adjust what doesn’t look right by selecting the points in question, right-mouse clicking, selecting “Edit CP Weights” and setting the bone influences there. One thing to remember is that AM will make the total percentage of influence add up to 100%, so, if you need say just 80% influence from a particular bone or group of bones, assign the 20% you don’t want used to a neutral bone…for the face, I use the head bone. Later, when you move that portion of the face another direction and find you need to have another bone’s influence, use some (or all if necessary) of what is applied to the neutral bone…making sure that the percentages add up to 100%.

I think to get the indicator in the PWS that there is CP weighting you have to set the “Bone Falloff Curve” in the “Properties” of the model…not sure about that, but, that’s how I have been able to make it appear. Since I don’t use that, I’m not as familiar with it.

One change I would suggest in the rig would be to have the top lip bones ( the LR/UD bones ) a different color from the bottom bones. Also the side bones could be a different color as well ( white is good )

I haven’t bothered changing any colors of bones, but I can see how it would be helpful if someone is importing the rig into another model…I’ll do that on the next one I post. So, would you want the LR bones a different shade of the same color as the UD bones to help differentiate them? And would you want the lip bones to have the same color scheme? I guess I could color coordinate the whole face…it would make explaining what to hook up where easier. Any preferences?


#53

I’m going to have to pick through the constraint setup on my model.
I still have a few problem areas.
I’m sure I can crack this thing though.
Thanks once again for this rig. It is all slowly making sense ( I’m learning what certain types of ‘constraints’ do as I go.
I hate learning on my own. I’m a ‘show me’ kind o’ dude.

As far a a color scheme for the bones, I’ll get back with you on that. I have to be to work in a few hours ( at 3:46 A.M. )

:thumbsup:


#54

I just wanted to give a “heads-up” to anyone interested, I posted a new version of the rigged head on the Hash thread. The new version has a different forehead and eyebrow setup, which have a lot in common with the constraints in Shaun Freeman’s tutorial. It’s not exactly the same, but unless I wanted an extremely complicated setup I had to let basic geometry dictate bone placement…hence the similarity.

Now I’ve got to finish the tutorial…


#55

Finish that Tut. I’m also a “Show me” kind of person. A tut would help alot.


#56

David, I’m going to try the new set-up today, but was wondering if you could list the constraints and their percentages that you use in this rig.

I know I can open up the folders to find this information, but I’m not sure which bones have constraints and which folders to open to get to the info.

I realize this is asking a lot, so no hurries what-so-ever on the time it takes.

If I keep running into constraint problems, I’ll set them up myself to get a more 'hands on approach ’ to the problem . I need to learn what they do anyways ! :thumbsup:

Thanks again ! It’s exciting seeing my model move.


#57

What are you having problems with ? Maybe I can confus… uhh … help you some.


#58

Okay, here are a few:

  1. All lip bones= “Translate to” corresponding lip targets at 90% (no compensate)

  2. wattle= “orient like” jaw 75% (with compensate)

  3. cheek= “aim at” nostril target 60% (no compensate)

  4. jowl= “aim at” nostril target 70% (no compensate)

  5. nose_center_left/right= “orient like” nostril 80% (with compensate), “translate to” nose_lower_center 40% (with compensate)

  6. nose_lower_center= “translate to” upper_center_geom 100% (with compensate), “translate limit” 0 on ‘x’ and ‘z’ and ‘y’ limit dependent on model.

  7. nose_main= “translate to” upper_center_geom 20% (with compensate), “translate limit” 0 on ‘x’ and ‘z’ and ‘y’ limit dependent on model.

  8. nostril_base_left/right= “translate to” upper_left/right_3_geom 20% (with compensate), “translate to” upper_left/right_2_geom 25% (with compensate), “translate limit” 0 on ‘x’ and ‘z’ and ‘y’ limit dependent on model.

  9. nostril_left/right= “aim at” nostril_target_left/right 50% (no compensate), “euler limits” on ‘y’ dependent on model.

  10. ear_left/right= “aim at” nostril_target_left/right 5% (no compensate).

These numbers might have to be adjusted depending on your model, but, they can serve as a starting point. Also, I left out any of the constraints that are dependent on the model’s dimensions like the mouth_ud/lr. Hope this helps.


#59

Thanks for the effort David.

I think I’ll go ahead and set up the constraints ( vs. use the read-made version ) since this will help me learn what is going on.
I realize that I will have to re-create all of the pose sliders, but I would have had to modify them anyways.

I have to admit something ( something embarrasing really ) : I have avoided animating anything in A:M due to my lack of knowledge regarding constraints. I actually thought that all models behaved like those without limits ( movement coonstraints )
For example, I thought that the ‘Knight’ model was fully rigged for animation - the best their was.
I soon became frustrated with his limbs flying every-which-way, and thought I was just doing it all wrong.
Now that I think I have a better understanding of constraints, I have a renewed interest in animation - and A:M is looking better all the time.
( I even purchased Jeff Lews DVD yesterday. )

Thanks for posting this project and sticking with me through all the gripes that I have had with it.


#60

Now that I think I have a better understanding of constraints, I have a renewed interest in animation - and A:M is looking better all the time.

Very cool.

Thanks for posting this project and sticking with me through all the gripes that I have had with it.

Your efforts have helped me decide that I should automate this process, so, thank you. The tutorial should be up by the beginning of next week…I’ll give you a “heads up” as to where to download it when I know for sure.


#61

David - I meant to get back with you on this. Sorry.

I think it would be great to have the color setup as you have described above.
Having the face color coordinated is a fantastic idea.

Having the lip ( geometry ) bones the same color is fine, but what would be even better in my opinnion would be to have them a different shade - this way it is easier to see the CP weighting influences.

It would really help a lot.


#62

Can you post the rigged head here?


#63

It’s on the first post ( from " itsjustme " ) at the top of the last page. ( page 4 )

( The zip file ) :slight_smile:


#64

The file size limit on this forum (100k) prevents me from posting the rigged head, the file Vegan is referring to is the face rig without the forehead and eyebrow controls and without geometry. The rigged head is on the Hash thread…the version you’ll want is called “tutehead_rigged_v2.zip”. To sign up for the Hash forum (free), go here.

From Vegan’s attempts to import the rig into another character I have come to the conclusion that the easiest method at the moment to install this rig would be from scratch…although I’m presently working on automating the process. The tutorials on making this rig have been submitted and I have it on good authority that they will be up this weekend (as far as I know, here), sorry it has taken so long.


#65

Whuups !

Soory 'bout that.

David, I have just begun to redo the setup from scratch. The problem that I ran into with the automated setup is that a lot of those constraints are buried and it takes a long time to fine tune them in an action.

How do I ‘tack down’ the bones along with their children ? I find that each time I open the model, I have to expand them all.

As you stated, it does indeed seem easier to set the constraints up from scratch.

Thanks again for you efforts. I really look forward to the tutorial.

BTW, I modeled my character with her mouth partly open. It seems that this means the rig has to be modified somewhat compared to a model with a closed mouth. ( This also explains the problem that I was having with the cheeks pulling in too far.


#66

Whuups !

Soory 'bout that.

Nothing to be sorry about, Vegan, without your attempts I wouldn’t know as quickly that I need to automate the installation (which is my current project)…you’ve been a tremendous help. Sorry you went through the problems you did. Hopefully, the tutorial will help…once again, sorry it has taken me so long on that.

How do I ‘tack down’ the bones along with their children ? I find that each time I open the model, I have to expand them all.

I don’t know of any method to keep everything opened up…there may be a way, I just don’t know it.

I modeled my character with her mouth partly open. It seems that this means the rig has to be modified somewhat compared to a model with a closed mouth. ( This also explains the problem that I was having with the cheeks pulling in too far.

The example head I rigged has a partially opened mouth…that shouldn’t make a difference, but importing the rig from the sample head into another model with different dimensions would cause problems until everything is reset. That involves changing the percentages on everything and resetting the compensate on the bones that have it…almost as much work as building it from scratch and harder to keep track of.

Hopefully, watching the tutorials will help…if I left something out, just flag me down and I’ll try to answer any questions.


#67

David, don’t worry about the time this has taken.

I for one needed this little ‘kick in the tail’ to get back to even looking at bone setups.

Now that I have a better understanding of constraints, I’m eager to actually animate something.

I even purchased Jeff Lews DVD a couple of days ago.

I always go overboard on things and give myself grief. Rather than using the K.I.S.S. method of doing things and just animating something simple like a ball, I insisted on creating a high patch count dragon/dino creature with dual layer wings. ( I’m never 'good enough " )
I could never seem to get my bones set right and always had the top layer of the wing going through the bottom layer.
I quickly became frustrated, and gave up. ( And I wonder why I fail at everything I do ! )

Unfortunately … I’m doing that sort of thing again. The model that I am working on now is ridiculously ( sp ) high in its patch count. I want to make my model as photo real as possible.

What does this have to do with your rig ?
-Well I believe those that use your setup with less splinage will not run into the same problems as I have had with my high patch count model.

Thanks for posting the rig. It really is brilliant !


#68

itsjustme tells us this:
The file size limit on this forum (100k) prevents me from posting the rigged head, the file Vegan is referring to is the face rig without the forehead and eyebrow controls and without geometry.

Why so little? It can be no problem buying a cheap harddisk?
Why cannot cgtalk provide this - the A:M Forums is a product Forum - it is not free - I think it was better cgtalk could provide the same possibilities as A:M Forums - 1 MegaByte to upload or better 5 MegaBytes and we could upload not only models but also animations.
Will cgtalk give this opportunity soon or what is the policy - thinking here? Who is the thinker? Who is the owner? Is cgtalk free or…?


#69

ninewe,

asuming your not just trolling…

cgtalk is currently free and paid for and set up by the good folks at Ballistic Media Pty Ltd.

While there are plans afoot to help subsidise its costs etc through a membership scheme, Ballistic have at their expense established cgtalk as probably one of the most succesful and best computer graphics communities on the web. While 100K limit may not seem much - when you expand that through the number of users, forums and threads its a large volume of data. and no its not simply a case of a cheap hardisk when your supporting this size of community…

David’s rig is accessible via the hash forums (btw - thanks david, this is a great resource and the thread here and tuts will be a huge help to beginner AM users like myself) which is available to most if not all AM users. If you can;t get access ask here and I am sure someone would be happy to mail it to you… or point you to another host site if there is one.

Might be worth pointing out that the about part of CGtalk actually gives you all your answers to your questions in the last section of the post.

cheers,

Phillip


#70

It seems to me that you know a lot about cgtalk - perhaps you are working for them - because I can not understand how you can defend 100 kbyte. Or perhaps you are working for Hash?

I think better David could post his rig here - and cgtalk would become more popular - do they not want to become poplular?

If A:M can afford 1 Mb - why cannot cgtalk afford 1 Mb - and disc capacity can be of no problem.

No - I believe it is old standards - that is the explanation.