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#501

*to overcome the pesci uncanny valley you must never call him funny.


#502

a 10 foot blue cat man with a tail has more in common with a human then gollum? who is basically human in every way from skin color, features, anatomy


#503

Yes I realize they are 10 foot tall and have blue skin. My point was, from what I can see in the trailer, is that the navi stand up straight, use limbs, move and act like us as opposed to gollum who walked on all fours and behaved more creature like. I also feel the navi’s facial designs are more normal human proportions than gollums (which was more exaggerated proportions). This is just my opinion and two cents worth.

edit:

Maybe a better way to explain it is gollum was a human turned into basically a creature. He walked and acted more animal than human . So we can use our imaginations more for how he should act and move. The navi seem to behave and act as humans therefore we resort to comparing and relating them to the one thing that every person knows best …how a human would act and emote. And knowing instinctively the way humans act and move makes the situation much more unforgiving for any mistake thus making it harder to overcome uncanny valley. Again I could be crazy and it’s my humble opinion. I actually (with my untrained eye) dont think there is a going to be much of an uncanny valley problem once the movie is finished. I was merely making a general statement in response to a poster that uncanny valley is a problem when we have something to refer it too as opposed to when we dont.

hahah thanks. Thats what I get for rushing a post. :slight_smile:


#504

I was at the 15 minute preview as well.

I did not like most of the teaser trailer on the web, but I did like this preview (IMAX 3D), and so did mostly everyone in the audience.

The characters really do feel alive. There were moments I was trying to convince myself it was all just cgi, but somehow I couldn’t. It might look as cgi at certain times, but it doesn’t act as cgi.

An hour later, I saw a trailer for this new Disney movie with Jim Carrey, also in 3D. Robert Zemeckis fluff. The difference between this and the Avatar preview was big. VERY big.


#505

Zemeckis’s all CG movies have never been able to portray believable (not I’m not saying realistic) characters on screen, there’s a total disconnect between their body movement and their facial expressions (body motion to lifelike, facial animation too stiff and lifeless).

I didn’t see any of that in the Avatar trailer, the character totally convinced me that it was a living breathing being and if the flat trailer doesn’t do the 3D screening justice then I’m really going to enjoy the full movie.


#506

For me, it’s the size of the eyes on the Na’vi that automatically makes them jump out as artificial. It’s not a question of “realistic” versus “unrealistic” proportions - that’s already been argued to death, and as many have said, it’s a moot point for a species that doesn’t actually exist. The issue is that I have a pre-existing mental association between large eyes and cartoon characters. Looking at the Na’vi reminds me of looking at pixeloo’s work - no matter how photographic the rendering may be, the proportions still scream “cartoon.”

That said, there were two closeups in the trailer that I found convincing.  One was posted by CHRiTTer earlier:
And the other's at 1:29 in the trailer; it shows the face of a Na'vi (the female lead, I think?) behind some leaves.  It didn't mentally click until I looked back at these shots a few more times, but I think it's no coincidence that the most convincing Na'vi face shots are the ones in which the eyes are narrowed, hooded, squinting, etc.  When the eyes appear smaller, my mental "that's a cartoon" flag vanishes.

Obviously, the big eyes were a deliberate choice Cameron made in reaching the Na'vi's final design.  However, if he wants the viewer to instantly accept the creatures as "real," I have to question whether or not that choice was an effective one.

I don’t mind the long limbs and necks, but the slender waists have a similar “it’s fake” effect on me. Again, it’s not an issue of “realism,” but one of mental associations - those waistlines make me think of exaggerated fashion sketches, or at best real people who are malnourished.

All nitpicking aside
though, I’m still really excited to see the full film. I saw the footage on “Avatar Day,” and what I liked most was the glimpses it offered of an entirely new world. Regardless of (what seems to be) an overly-familiar story and semi-cartoony character designs, I’m really looking forward to seeing more of Pandora.


#507

Eye size was a lot less disturbing in the 15 minute footage, at least to me.


#508

I’ve watched the 15mins in 3D and I have serious doubts about image’s stability at 24FPS. I think Cameron mentioned something about this but I think any 3D film should use almost 100Hz ( combined ) to avoid headaches… specially when this film is taking 3h 15m.

I realized also that some compositing problems I saw in the 2D version are ok in the 3D version. Seems most of the effects are specially designed for the 3D version and strange things happens when you see it in 2D.


#509

To me, this is the most realistic shot in the trailer:

Especially when you see it in motion.


#510

I’ve just read Roger Ebert’s review of the preview, and it sounds like Cameron has read Poul Anderson’s Call Me Joe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_me_Joe


#511

I tried to watch this trailer without thinking that it’s done by famous Cameron
.

Well in the beginning it was interesting. But later…why should I care about those
strange blue aliens? And I might be wrong but to me they looked totally artificial
…[font=‘Times New Roman’]:hmm: [/font]


#512

you care about characters after the whole movie. if you wont care about them after 2 hours and 30 minutes then ok.but noone said that you should care about the aliens after a 2 minute trailer. :slight_smile:

p.s.
i like this shot


#513

Wow, we’re complaining about not caring for characters in a teaser trailer? Come on people, don’t you think we’re scraping the bottom of the critique barrel?

Those images you guys are posting are the same scenes that really grabbed me. Especially the yelling image and the scene with the female aline behind the brush in the shadows. Whether the renders look real or not (which I think they do) the facial expressions are so well done I have a feeling after watching the film and seeing them act and move there will be no doubt they’re “real” as I watch the film.


#514

WOW!!! what a masterpiece. Mr.Cameron has given us more than what we expected i guess, for the long wait. 4 more months to go…phem :slight_smile:

The hero character is so easily likeable. The dare of the director to actually take us to another world and make us feel for the alien characters is a difficult job to pull, and something only james cameron can pull off.

Guess, they used VUE 7.5 Epirite for creating the wonderful landscape of Pandora. The concept creatures courtesy Neville paige look very inspirational and otherworldly. The story in itself is such a divine idea.

One of my favourite movies is the Tom cruise starrer ‘The Last Samurai’. The story of AVATAR kinda reminds me of the last samurai’s story. About how the protgonist was sent to colonize and capture the enemy but ends up fighting from their side. It’s very similar here isn’t it. Jack sully goes to colonize Na’vi but ends up fighting the humans in the end.

At the game premier of AVATAR james announced that the final battle sequence in the movie is the biggest battle scene in the history of cinema. Well, he is a confident guy. He is James Cameron, the film maker of film makers :slight_smile:


#515

i dont think thy used VUE. every plant,… was designed and created from scratch


#516

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py3-YamlBT8


#517

i really doubt that:P if they did, they would probably quit doing movies


#518

for me it was one of the most beautiful ones. but ive noticed a interpenetration issue on the earfur+dreadlock on that one.

still, amazing :slight_smile:


#519

Here’s a super-quick “3 minutes in after effects” example of what I would do to the “wheeling of the ramp” shot.

The original frame is up top, my mods below.

In the original, the interior is not only totally unrealistically bright for that exposure, it totally distracts from the main character. So fixing the brightness “in the belly of the freighter” makes him more of the focal point of the scene.

I also made the “outdoors” background brighter, and pushed the mech slightly deeper towards shadow, yet retained much stronger highlights on it. I darkened the face slightly on Sam, although in an ideal world, this would have needed more work; he is shot with one of those “pretty” (and very unrealistic) rimlights on his face, which makes it scream “bluescreen shot” to me.

This is just a personal suggestion (plus a slap comp, don’t look at any details!!) what I think could be done to this shot. Basically, these are what my notes would be were I the director :wink:

/Z


#520

That’s some insightful stuff, Master Zap.
Now I’m sure aftar all the backslash it got from the industry, they’ll do something to that shot :wink: