Autodesk Signs Agreement with Avid Technology to Acquire Softimage


#961

One company effectively controls most of the computer graphics market.

It cannot be downplayed how monumental this purchase is for our industry.
In effect we have one player now controlling the destiny of the most Entertainment graphics industry an frankly , if history is any indicator, they really want to become the ONLY player in the world of graphics
As a company Autodesk, has expanded in the past 10 years into a force that DOMINATES all the markets they enter. Right now they control Architectural Design, Industrial Design & now the Gaming/ Film & Television markets.

They still don’t control the Web Design, Application Programming & the Video market. But that might be in the development stages…

What this means for us is that if this market integration continues you will have to deal with ONE company , Autodesk, to (as they say) make a buck…

Is it right for ONE company to have that much power over ALL the computer graphics markets?

[left]This means that one player an dictate terms to other companies and set up industry wide standards that benefit them[/left]

As I said before…
They could drop support on any 2d/3d format they wish, and move to proprietary formats for all 3d work.

Not only that, they could REFUSE to open the format…
Apple does this right now with their iTunes music player.

Hell if they wish now they could now establish subscription certification programs to “certify” that you can use their software.

This is quite common in other markets.
Oracle does this right for databases.
Microsoft does this for most of their tools

Here is a rundown
[ul]
[li]Architectural Design[/li]> AutoCAD is the standard of that industry.
[li]Industrilal Design[/li]> AliasStudio.(AKA studio tools)
[li]Gaming/ Film & Television [/li]> One company, thanks to wise adquisitions, now controls the 3 biggest competitiors
Maya
3D Studio
Motion Builder
Mud Box

And of course Softimage…
[/ul]

It is very scary when you look at it that way.


#962

Don’t hold your breath.


#963

talk about over blowing the idea…
let’s have a proper look.

THE big deal was buying Alias not Softimage…softimage is similar to buying mudbox or motion builder…small userbase compared to maya or 3dsmax…yep softimage xsi is a real contender to the crown of 3d apps as it’s one of the top 3 most ‘capable’ apps but market share it’s behind lightwave for example and before anyone jumps in saying what’s lightwave? then go watch battlestar galactica…THAT’s lightwave.

now to compare>
adobe OWN the pixel editing market place with phtotoshop, there are other apps out there that do the same/similar such as corel painter, g.i.m.p and corel paintshop pro x2 but adobe has been really sucessful in getting the term ‘photoshoped’ into the general public’s dictionary…

i don’t see people SCREAMING blue murder about adobe having the monopoly on 2d pixel editing currently.

the purchase of xsi was more to do with mopping up and a strategic opportunistic purchase more than one that autodesk ‘went after’.
it was there at the right price…simple as that… a bargin bin offer they couln’t overlook.

here’s why CURRENTLY autodesk are FAR from dominating 3d.

autodesk have no renderer

it’s like adobe not having layers in photosop…it weakens their position as they HAVE to rely on other companies to get pretty pictures rendered out…max has scanline and maya has software but they both…and xsi TOTALLY rely on mental ray…which is what’s bundled into all 3 apps right now.

now…mental images came up for sale a while back…ideal time for world domination for autodesk…but they didn’t bite…nvidia bought it…now ws that because of the price being too high for autodesk or do they have other plans to buy something else…or are they comfortable relying on other companies for developing renderers for thier 3d apps?

the purchase of xsi interesting when you look at what autodesk own aong side it but on it’s own it’s smalltime conpared to buying alias as the major reasn for the alias purchase by all accounts was for alias studio tools and maya was jut some icing on the cake.

xsi is just more icing…with no cake in the purchase.

also when you look at the 2d pixel editing market adobe is realy the only thing out there…everything else tries to copy and does’t really match up to photoshop’s features…the only app at a similar level is painter and that took a side step into the artist area not the photo re-touching area.

now look around the 3d programs still out there…yes the big three [top capable apps not market share] are owned by autodesk [will soon be owned actually]
but>>

there are lots of other strong apps out there unlike in the pixel editing area.
modo
houdini
cinema
lightwave
blender
aniation master
messiah studio

vue
sketchup
rhino
zbrush
3dcoat
massive
endorphin
bryce
poser
hexagon
carrara
…well the list goes on…and it’s obvious there’s plenty of talented programmers making
great/better options to any autodesk product if you really want to steer clear of autodesk…

unlike adobe and the 2d pixel editing market.

here’s when the real crunch time arrives for 3d.

when autodesk buy some of these>
Vray
renderman compliant renderer>>either pixar’s or a variant like 3delight etc.
final render
brazil
lightwave [for it’s renderer…it’s already been stripped out by newtek for use
as a photoshop plugin renderer for adobe photoshop cs4]

without a capable renderer autodesk are in no position to lock out and dominate 3d.


#964

Well we have a good idea who Autodesk might buy next.


#965

yeah…start screaming when Vray or pixar’s renderman get bought up by Autodesk.

for now…we’re in a transitional period i believe xsi was out of the blue…but autodesk most probably have a stratergy for buying a renderer they really want

if i were to lay cash down, id say Vray is their number one focus as it’s available now on max, maya and soon xsi.


#966

I was always under the impression XSI had the #3 spot, not LightWave. I use both but I was seeing alot of people ditch LW for XSI for their Character Animation tools while some kept LW because it still had good particles tools (that might change after ICE).


#967

First a desiclaimer before I open my big mouth…
These are my opinions and do no reflect in any way of form the opinions or policies of the Cg society, Cgtalk and Ballistic Media. If you have a problem with my opinions, please addess you complains towards me.

As a fellow Lightwaver I must admit that it is quite a capable program (that I defended over the years and I have the scars to prove it), but it is no way in the same league as Maya and Soft.
My pipeline was as of yesterday…

Lightwave, Blender & Zbrush, and I was building a Lightwave, Zbrush & XSI pipeline for my own work… That will change now.

Maya and Soft dominate the really high end 3d market right now and Max is king in the gaming world.
I can show the reserach numbers to prove this.

I think it is important to bring the idea of
CORPRORATE CULTURE.

Adobe for all its defects has done on hell of a good job of integrating into their pipelines all their adquisitions. Antheir prices are aimend stright to the consumer market and their licensing agreements are quite fair in my humble opinion.

Autodesk well on the other hand … I would suggest to browse the Maya forums for more details on their CORPRORATE CULTURE.

And your absolutly right. Still it does not change the fact that One companyr now controls
the direction of most of the high end 3d content creation tools in the world.

here’s why CURRENTLY autodesk are FAR from dominating 3d.

And we agree on that too…

I bet in less than two years this will not be an issue.
-R


#968

Now that is scary.

Prepare yourself VRay for the Autodek armada.


#969

number of seats sold lightwave is probably still number 2…but probably has slipped to number 3

last i heard…and it’s very hard to get defined numbers.

3dsmax 200,000 plus seats
lightwave 90,000 seats
maya …well my numbers for that are much older but probably 50,000 but that also grew when they slashed the price
xsi was and i’ll add WAS around 12,000

now this isn’t current and 100% accurate and def xsi grew quite abit when they started to offer foundation at $495 so maybe xsi grew upto 30,000.
also many lightwavers didn’t go for lightwave 9 and moved to xsi or cinema so soomeof those lightwave seats are also xsi seats [same person running both]

comapred to photoshop users the number of 3d artists is tiny as these apps are far more dfficult to use than people playing in photoshop.

i would like to add that i think the lightwave seats being bought/upgraded are decaying and not growing, lightwave on some aspects has taken far too long to move forward…the best thing in lightwave is it’s renderer…

many people move on from lightwave to modo, xsi, cinema, maya,3dsmax

lightwave isn’t in the top 3 or 5 apps for overall capability in my opinion if you have to take in to account what’s needed for an all round app with future tech advancements…blender is cutting a better development trail for sure.

one intersting statistic i remember getting from autodesk last year was that if you add up all the current version seats of lightwave, maya, xsi and cinema they are still LESS than [b]just 3dsmax

[/b]


#970

Maybe someone needs to come at this issue from a different angle.

1 - Technical knowhow is so widespread, new players can come from so many places and changes can occurr so rapidly in today’s world that building a stable monopoly and maintaining it over a long period of time is much more difficult than people think.

Owning Maya + 3DMAX + XSI doesn’t mean much when a new 3D software can be developed with relatively low capital investment in any country where there is a good pool of tech graduates. And there are many countries that have people capable of creating new 3D tools now.

2 - None of the 3D packages Autodesk owns are super-efficient “I imagined it and arrived at a reasonably high quality representation of my idea in 15 minutes” tools. The design thinking behind these tools is a decade old or older. Its difficult to make radical changes to the way they function without alienating the user bases trained on these tools.

A freshly developed software, no matter how primitive it starts out, faces none of these constraints. Workflow and user interface can be radically different. It may not use the standard splines, NURBS, polygons technology at all. Everything can be different, everything can be NEW. The resulting software may not resemble 3D packages designed in the 80s and 90s at all. Not in workflow and not even in the terminology used for its commands and functions.

It may be more efficient by a factor of 3 times or maybe 6 or 10 times on certain tasks because all the old thinking and assumptions about how stuff is done in 3D have been discarded and replaced with newer thinking and newer ideas.

3 - The era of “play it safe, create N number of sequels, recycle as many concepts and ideas as you can, throw 150 specialized people and lots of money at each creative project” is over. It takes a high flying global economy to feed such “creativity factories” and “uncreativity factories” and sell repetitive crap to consumers who have a lot of free time and money to spend.

That high flying global economy was built on HOT AIR and HUBRIS. And no amount of “maybe governments will fix it with xyz intervention package” can or will fix that.

In the next 5 years consumers will spend less, investors will invest less, banks will give less credit and there will be a lot more hard questions asked before any expensive creative projects that use 3D or CG are financed.

It will be harder to sell unsattisfying films to moviegoers. Harder to flog a 5th sequel to a tired game franchise. Harder to justify intrusive DRM and copy protection schemes to a consumer who already feels guilt at having spent so liberally on hardware and games during the “boom years”.

The playing field will change. And it will change heavily in favor of individuals and small teams of creatives who can DO A LOT WITH A LITTLE, have the guts to create something truly original and don’t try to serve consumers soup in a can as a gourmet meal.

To do a lot with a little you need a) good ideas, b) the ability to create something good semi-spontaneously without months of advance planning and c) quick, unproblematic tools that really don’t get in your way.

Now the question is how many of Autodesk’s big, expensive tools are compatible with this landscape?

It doesn’t matter much that you have the best $1.5m piece of construction equipment in your catalogue when people doing the actual constructing want a smaller machine that costs only $150,000 and can turn in a smaller space and be parked under a standard height roof.

It doesn’t matter that the car you make can reach 0 - 100km/h in 3 secs when people are looking for something fuel efficient that just “gets them from A to B without breaking the bank”.

It doesn’t matter that you try to get an iron grip on a file standard when a new one can be constructed from scratch in a matter of month by people in different parts of the world who’ve never even met face to face.

I’m sorry for XSI users who have lost their “independence”. Its tragic that people who don’t want to be AD customers now have to be AD customers.

But this is hardly the end of competition in 3D.

In fact you could argue that the lousy global economy will give everyone from Intel to Nvidia to Microsoft a good kick in the pants and any innovation that was surpressed in the last few years or kept on a shelf for “bad times” (UIs, CPU technology, GPU technology, new coding tools) will have to be brought to market much faster and at a lower price than before.

If any of these companies have a piece of super hardware or software (like a truly nextgen GPU or a new code compiler) on the shelf that they were planning to withhold until 2010-11 they will have to bring it to market TOMORROW to keep their sales from going in the toilet.

That includes Autodesk as well, btw. Things are going to get slow in construction, engineering, archviz, manufacturing and a lot of other sectors that use CADCAM and 3D visualization tools. Nobody is going to beg Autodesk during this period to please sell them “another update”.

People who see companies like Autodesk as “invulnerable giants that buy everything in their path” may be in for a rude surprise. The tools these companies sell sell only when there is a lot of economic activity that requires these tools to be used and a lot of people who are employed on the basis of being able to use these tools to create economic produce. Games. TV ads. Print ads. Films. Engineering and product designs.

When that activity slows to a crawl, so do tool sales for even the biggest tool vendors. Adobe. Autodesk. Microsoft. You name it.

Bad economic times cause some players to cut down on activity or withdraw from markets completely.

And they spur some people and corporate players to exploit the shaken up landscape.

If someone with deep pockets has been thinking about entering the 3D or CAD fray for a long time, this may be the precise time they do it.

It helps that an economic crisis causes people to rethink everything. The way they work. The output they create. The tools they use. Their loyalty to a particular provider of tools and so forth.

Interesting times may be ahead. Even if companies like Autodesk and Electronic Arts look like they are swallowing everything and everyone, it takes a lot of money and really good sales to finance all those divisions and aquisitions. When all economic activity slows… well…

//end_of_rant


#971

Sounds cool to me, two decent renderers under 3 decent hoods.


#972

That is quite common, I am one of those users.
Lightwave gets a bad rap, but hey the renderer is really good, they have unlimited render nodes, is the upgrade price is low (and it NOT subscription based).

That is why going after a company like Adobe is going to be VERY hard. Thank God

Agreed, and there is a reason for this delay. I have heard some good great things about the next release of Lightwave.

Of course there is NO WAY it would equal what Soft did with in ICE, but hell not even Autodesk with all their might could match that. That is a big part of what makes this story so freakin tragic.
-R


#973

I find it’s helpful to put up numbers (installed base, prices, profit, etc) only when you can point to current, published & verifiable sources for your data.

There’s already enough conjecture and guesswork going on regarding this topic. Let’s try and stick to facts whenever we can guys…

Thanks -


#974

Thank goodness she’s on contract!


#975

I’ve only been an XSI user for little over a year, bought XSI 6.5 during $2000 special. I just uprgraded to XSI 7 a month ago and now this happened. I just hope Autodesk lets the XSI development team move foward, ie integrate ICE into modeling, rigging, animation, etc and not divide their time between developing XSI and integrating XSI technology into Max and Maya if that is even possible.


#976

nah… companies have too much on their plate as it is let alone supporting a fledgling product like Blender. They currently enjoy relationships with companies like Autodesk, Foundry, Adobe, etc to request enhancements or specific pipeline requirements while the developers do what they’re getting paid to do. I’d like for them to continue those relationships because in the end the rest of the community benefits. Also, the major commercial applications already work for them. Why screw around with a new one just to suit the needs of the OSS community. This goes back to those polls here where you ask people what they use. Chances are blender would be at the bottom of Maya, Max, XSI, Houdini, LW and so forth, so why think that companies would go that route too?


#977

i agree too, but when the perception that xsi is 3rd in sales one has to reply even with
old data to put into perspective the market share it occupies/occupied

the pie seems to get resliced pulling lightwave, cinema users over to xsi and maya
some of those xsi foundation seats were just people who were interested in taking a cheap
option to look at xsi…myself and 3 students i taught did that way back in xsi4 foundation
in 2004-2005 none of use actually changed to xsi…we took a look and bought xsi foundation to add to our options but didn’t take up xsi
as a used tool in the long run…we stayed with 3dsmax or lightwave as our tools of choice.


#978

That is hilarious and so WRONG on so many levels.


#979

I dont find it funny AT ALL.

Lets stay on topic…

BTW I would read the post by DePaint link and Riff-- Link .
Both have some really good points.


#980

My apologizes!!