Autodesk axes MotionBuilder standard

#41

I figured you can break down the Alias market into the entertainment companies (FX/animation houses), companies that buy Studio for product design (car, appliances, etc.), and then you have the end-users (some who post on this forum). Now, you can guess that in actuality, the licenses acquired by the film industry is probably a fraction of licenses bought by companies who use Studio for CAD purposes. We, here are specifically focused on entertainment elements of the CG industry and we assume that is the biggest market for graphics software. In actuality, there is a likelihood that Alias is probably making most of its money from Studio/ CAD users.

No we have the end-user market, the regular folks. My guess is more Maya licenses are bought by end-users versus licenses of Studio. Most end-users can’t afford Studio nor are they interested in CAD softwares, unless they are industrial design pros or students (most probably aren’t). I don’t have numbers to back up my hunches, but it would be cool if there was a chart of Alias market breakdown. I assume such a chart is proprietary.

#42

I’m not a motion builder user but when I go to their site and watch their demos (the things they themsleves are representing as special powers of their program) i have to say to myself “huh? Animation:Master has been doing that with character animation for years. And with a better interface.”

It may well be that MB has great power unknown to any other app, but they aren’t promoting it well. And if it doesn’t… well, what’s the point?

#43

If you plan to keep your old Kaydara 5.5, make sure you archive any updates that you previously downloaded, as they may not be available any more.

Also, keep the computer it’s loaded upon. It may be registered to that computer, and Autodesk may not help you move it on another computer. Also, don’t update that computer for future OSes, as MB 5.5 may not work on them.

#44

Big difference between A:M and Motionbuilder. You can take a scene from maya and bring it into motionbuilder. Then take that scene and bring it into xsi and then back into maya. A:M is pretty stuck into itself. Which is the most idiotic thing. If they just opened up a little bit and followed standards just a little bit, then they’d probally be a megarich company. A:M is lightyears ahead in animation then any other application, just can’t exchange the data and the renderer is dead slow.

#45

Can A:M handle motion capture data? MB can handle a variety of system and receive input in many ways that other apps can’t.

-b

#46

Thanks for advice Beamtracer. Yeah MB is keyed on a specific computer, I guess I’ll stick with this one for another few years, and by the time when I’ll have money to upgrade it, new soft will be on the market. I wanted to upgrade MB before but a lot of ppl said the following versions were having a lot of bugs, 5.5 is working good for what I need.

#47

When they key software to a specific machine, then stop supporting that software, it puts users in a dilemma.

We can always keep a legacy computer around for years to come, just to run MotionBuilder Standard, but it’s not very practical. MotionBuilder standard users really have to face reality start looking for some other replacement software.

Messiah is not cross platform.

Luxology this year will be developing a character animation suite that will run on Mac OS X, Windows and Linux. The question is how long will it take them to develop and release it. Something to keep an eye on, though.

Still, I’m very disappointed by the demise of MotionBuilder standard. Having bought it from Kaydara, along with all their training DVDs. I don’t think too highly of Autodesk for purchasing it, and then axing it.

#48

Autodesk should be careful not to price themselves out of the market.

#49

I’m sure they will give you a pretty inexpensive upgrade to Pro if you own standard.

#50

To be honest, that’s a bit of a myth other than for the largest of studios. We switched from LW/messiah to Maya when a project came in that required it, took as long as it took to order the licences (and obviosuly retrain some animators, call it a month). If you’re the size of Lucas or Pixar, sure, but if you’ve only got 20 crew or less, it certainly doesn’t take “years”, especially if several of them already know the new app. If the new app is more efficient, you end up with a gain (maya was a loss in animation speed, XSI I suspect would be a gain).

#51

What I was talking about is the decision takes a couple years, not the actual training or moving over. People like using what they know and most people can’t and don’t just make split decisions on going out and paying another 2k-7k per node when you just bought Maya or whatever your currently on only 2 years ago.

Also depending the work you do and how much in house staff you have, many people are busy with current projects. Not everyone has a month to take off and jump to another package. With your current package you know what works and what doesn’t and your much more efficient at it. Moving to a new package, while the initial learning doesn’t take much time, its all that other stuff inbetween that slows you down. Speed and knowing what buttons to push and which ones will bug out on you is just a matter of time. This is why when XSI and Maya first came out, it took 2-3 versions before most of the old Soft3d and Alias PA people moved over.

#52

MB 6 standard is still currently being supported by Autodesk for installation onto a different computer.

#53

I’m not so sure :wink: Alias have done some nasty things to Complete customers in the past and I wouldn’t put it past other companies like Autodesk to do the same. Obviously there’d be a huge amount of resentment towards Autodesk if they did axe Complete… so many smaller studios using it, yeah there’d be suicide bombings at local resellers.

Sux to hear about the licence prices here in NZ :frowning:

the best thing that could happen IMO, that would keep Autodesk’s users happy, is if they continue both product lines as they are for 2 years tops, while developing a super-cool >>> 64bit <<< 3D app which combined the best of both packages, kinda like Alias did with Maya coming from PowerAnimator/Dynamation (was that the Wavefront app…?). then maya AND max could fade into 32bit obscurity, as they should by 2008. I think XSI is technically superior to both products in a lot of ways… i just can’t stand that interface.

Autodesk might want to try properly integrating a renderer into the next-gen product, hopefully some flavour of 64bit MR. Alias never quite got there with MR, and their native renderer seriously sucked. One good thing about the Maya’s product coming to an end is seeing the back of that renderer :slight_smile:

#54

StudioTools is a NICHE tool…

In a typical design place they will have 1 seat of Studio for 3 seats of Solidworks or similar CAD system.

In the Automotive world Studio is used mainly as a conceptual design tool, GM and a few other use it for A-Class but particulary every other company uses icem.

All the big automotive companies have direct deals with Alias/Autodesk so you can bet they ain’t paying that full price tag either.

Studio falls into industrial design / automotive…

Maya falls into more markets then i can list its not a niche tool anymore which was what the $2k complete stratergy was aimed at doing.

#55

Heh, you’re fooling yourself.

There’s ALOT more money in Studio Tools than in Maya. In fact, some consider Studio Tool’s ability to import directly from Solid Works the primary reason Autodesk bought Alias (Solid Works competes directly with Autodesk Inventor).

#56

Still, Studio tools is a very minor actor in the CAD market. the estimation of 1 studio tools for 3 solidworks is imho very optimistic. All small to medium companies wont even consider it when choosing their CAD package.

and the fact inventor failed to attract customers is due to lack of Autodesk giving what their customers wanted in time. Now they have switched it is too late.

Solidworks, Pro/E and Catia (the latter mostly in europa) have now such a stronghold of key customers that were previously in autodesk hands, that there is very little chance Autodesk will return to the former glory of Autocad times. Other actors like Missler Topsolid are ahead too in specialized markets.

To make things worse for studio tools, Solidworks change its format at each release (1 per year) and its mother company (Dassault systemes) is also the editor of Catia which is a more direct competitor of ST in Automotive and Aerospace industries. So i wont bet the hability of ST to read native SW format is here to stay.

#57

Alas, I have to agree on all these points.
Given the route taken, seems to me that this is bound to be a case of “forcing hands” in the future. Of course, one of the side-effects will be to force peoples hands into dumping MB all together. Which is a shame as it IS a good package, just greedily marketed. :frowning:

#58

better that AD’s “Character Studio”

#59

In all honesty, couldn’t say as never used it. All I can say is it is very flexible and a doddle to use. Must be, I can use it! :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

#60

Can A:M handle motion capture data? MB can handle a variety of system and receive input in many ways that other apps can’t.

-mummey

It sure can, and it animates like a dream. It is easy, and I mean very easy to use and in some cases just as powerful as Maya and Motionbuilder.
Easy to animate with, captures motion if you want it, has hair, cloth and at a cheap price that any artist can afford. What more could you want? I think if it wanted to it could beat Maya except one thing…

Big difference between A:M and Motionbuilder. You can take a scene from maya and bring it into motionbuilder. Then take that scene and bring it into xsi and then back into maya. A:M is pretty stuck into itself. Which is the most idiotic thing. If they just opened up a little bit and followed standards just a little bit, then they’d probally be a megarich company. A:M is lightyears ahead in animation then any other application, just can’t exchange the data and the renderer is dead slow.

-Nichod

Nichod hit it on the head. It does not work well with others. They believe everyman is an island or something. It’s a nice island, but I hate modelling in splines, it is tooo sloooowwww!! What takes me 4 hours to model in A:M takes me 20 minutes in Zbrush, Wings, Modo, Hexagon 3d, Wings3d, etc. If you are using A:M you do not have options like with all the other programs. You pretty much just have to use A:M for everything!! That is the only reason I left this wonderful program. I don’t want to model in it, it wastes my time. Great program but don’t tell them to put polygons or a converter in their program or they’ll get mad and tell you to go to MAYA or something. (Personal experience, learn from my mistakes, don’t ask or complain about wanting to model in another program and better import options, splines are the only way for them.)

This problem is only my perception though, I think there is a weakness in modelling, but once modelled in splines, splines are great to animate with. That is where A:M shines. In the world of Animation, but unfortunately is it no also MODEL MASTER, it is Animation Master, but once you get to the animation part it is a breeze. But don’t go in expecting to model in silo zbrush wings 3d, etc and move it to A:M. It just won’t happen that way. But if you want a powerful program, don’t mind modelling in splines, then this one is as powerful, in my opinion to Maya.