André, if I can see a detail, i’ll try to include it if i’m able. I kinda hate Mil at the moment for making this thing so weirdly.
Routing so many bevelled edges, maintaining all quad geometry is tricky. The topology for this made me cry. Still, if it exists, i’ll model it. See if you can spot the tiny hole I drilled. Will add nuts and bolts next.
This is going to be one insane model once complete! 
You do realise it will take you months if not years to finish the model if you put this much detail in it, not? 
Cobra 6
Perhaps, but i’m working under the assumption that the more I make, the faster i’ll get at modelling these awkward parts. Picture Neo at the beginning of the Matrix compared with how he was at the end of Revolutions. I happened upon blueprints of some key rotor parts after doing some research translating my search terms into Russian. Without those I may have kept it simpler than I did. Thanks
A tiny update really. I was trying to figure out how to model the lockwire/safety-wire that threads through the drilled bolt heads.
Wow the attention is nuts, i love it
How many polys does the entire part have in the last rendering?
A wire frame of the low poly cage would be interesting.
Cheers
Andre
I was browsing the forums as I often do, and it hit me. There are far younger, far more successful people out there than i’ll ever be. I’ve spent the better part of eight years trying to get a job in the industry and have achieved nothing. How many years more will I waste on this, still achieving nothing? There’s only so much enjoyment you can get out of something you used to love before the stink of failure becomes overpowering. The big shots get all the kudos anyway. I’m posting a last couple of renderings so André can laugh at my slowly, crappily modelled topology which is so “crazy”, and then i’ll be taking a break from this thing. I’ll be off the last page of the forum in a few days. I may come back to it some day but all these years have really killed off my youthful optimism and any motivation I once had. I really didn’t want to be writing any of this and i’m sure people will judge me for it, but if you’d laboured for so long and had little or nothing to show for it, you might feel the same way. That’s just the way I feel at the moment.
Well, seeya.
ah, sorry to hear that. 
i hope that success will eventually come your way,
and will light up your passion once again.
good luck man
Telemachus,
I read your last post and I just laughed out loud, not because it’s amusing but because I understand exactly where you are mentally. Your fondness will come back, it never really goes away…just hides for a while.
I’d really like to dive into it but because this isn’t my main account, forgot my password and email associated with it, I can’t pm you.
Good luck brother.
Maybe a good idea for you would be to make “less detailes but more visible work”? I mean, to stop model all this invisible in final renders details like screw thread and start to work on things that will let you to finish you project?? As I can see you know how to model, that is good, but those crazy details make your project like “neverending story”. You know, the rule for me is simple - if you can model exterior body of helicopter in good quality, you will be able to model screw’s thread. I DO NOT HAVE TO SEE it. It is clear. But this screw will not help you to create amazing final renders, coz it will be invisible! So, why to model it, if your aim is to create goodlooking portfolio? The more it makes you abandon your project? Hope you get my point of view. It is hard for me to explain it since my english isn’t good:)
And regarding Andre. Please note, that he is talented 3d artist with YEARS of experience in this industry. And what to more, he has got good portfolio already, so he can make crazy details in his free time, but despite this, even he does not do screw’s threads!
All in all… sometimes less means more…
I believe in you!
Frankly I think i’m just burned out. Thanks.
I was hoping to do some close-up renders of the more interesting mechanisms as well, so the detail isn’t completely unnecessary. I take your point though. Obviously the more you try to take on, the longer it will take. In the past people have said my work wasn’t accurate or detailed enough, so I guess I was trying to address those criticisms with this piece. If you show someone some work and then say “but I can do better than this, honest” there is a good chance they won’t believe you, or they’ll ask you why you didn’t “do better” if you’re really capable of it. If, however, you show someone an amazing piece, they’ll see what you’re really capable of. This is different if you have a lot of experience; people will already be aware of what you can do and so there is no doubt in their mind, but if you don’t have that experience like me, then I feel compelled to go to an extreme level to show those people the limits of what I can do. I don’t want people to say “that guy’s modelling sucks”.
I don’t want my work to be wasted, so I will try to pick it up again in a while. Perhaps I will have to cut corners somewhere even though I feel dirty just saying that lol.
Thanks for the advice pgajlewicz, and don’t worry, your english is fine.
imho better workflow would be, blocking out the helicopter first and detail it gradually, that way you can also work on more parts at once, if you get tired of the rotor, you can move to the guns, or cockpit, or whatever.you will be also able pay more attention to visible parts of the bird. or you can recognize that this part is already detailed enough and move to something else, etc, that way it the work will feel more fresh and less tiresome imho.
Sad to hear you lost your motivation on this one and I can see why. Pgajlewicz wrote already kind of what I wanted to say. Your model is so high in detail that overall progress is very slow and therefor there’s not “much to look at”. I had those kinda problems as well on my models like the White House as well as the Mi-24. That’s why I am cutting off details if they are too tiny and not visible. I know already what kinda close-ups I am going to render. Long lens (400mm +) shots of the front of the Mi-24 for example, that’s why I put a lot of detail in that region. I cut off details inside the rear landing gear bay because I will barely see the inside. And if in one case there’s a lack of details, those can be still added later.
“far more successful people out there than i’ll ever be.” - That is simply not true. You have a head, two arms and legs just like everyone else. I bet my horse on that you can get a start in a vfx company in 6 months if you do it right. You want to “over-insure” yourself in terms of modeling quality etc. With the parts you modeled you demonstrated already the following: Dedication - One of the very most important features someone can have, attention to detail - you can make sure that stuff like set extension fit to the real set and hard surface models are believable and have their correct scale, clean models - the edgeflow looks good on that part and there’s nothing to laugh about (something I never do anyway).
So you have already the attributes that would make me hire you if I would own a company.
The only thing that is missing is the oh-cool-wow-effect. As clean and technical perfect your models are, work a bit on the presentation. I know technically it is unnecessary to make wip renders look nice but on personal projects that is fine! Because it’s made for fun and good looking stuff is fun to look at. Also you can indicate to a certain extent that you have a taste for color palettes, lighting etc. Your wip renders are perfect for an engineering office.
So keep what you have, tone down the amount of details, plow through the rotor head in 2-3 days. If some parts have a groove and bolt less, who cares? It’s all about the overall VISUAL impact of the final result! The engineers who developed that rotor head will never ever see your images anyway and even if… so what Try to think “good enough, move on to the next part”. That’s what you have to do in production anyway.
Also work on your website. Take one week, find a nice template (for free - thousands available - good stuff - easy to maintain), fill it with your content. The excavator for example can be rendered in a much nicer way. The model is great but the renders can be improved. Watch some basic vray videos on youtube about lighting and shading. I bet my horse again that with one week of learning and rendering, you can have 5 much nicer looking renders of it on your website.
Also in general, take a small vacation from the Mi-24. That will free up your mind of this gigantic task. I do that on a regular basis. I was tired of the chopper so one day I just made a radar dish or whatever. Even my White House was a vacation project. So pick a few smaller things you can knock out completely in 3-4 days. The fun will come back because you see results. Btw you can put those up on TurboSquid and earn some money on the side instead of letting them collect dust on the hard drive.
And last but not least: I don’t know if you do this already but going to the gym really does free up your mind!
I’m happy to help you out with tips where I can, seriously.
Cheers
Andre
I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread. Shame you’re loosing motivation - I think many of us can relate to this.
Regarding motivation - I find it’s good to have a couple of things on the go at once. Whether that’s another personal project or some learning. If you’re learning another skill that helps you reach your goal, one that you enjoy, then it might give you a better feeling that you’re moving forward whilst still taking a break from a personal project.
And as Andre says, the gym can be good. I just ruined myself with shaun T’s T25 workout lol!
Andre, THANK YOU!! I know this was meant for someone else, but I too was blessed by the insight and the advice. Great morsels of wisdom.
@Telemachus ~ I too would add that, please don’t give up. I worked in the defense industry for over 10 years, and there was always a need for detail, but we always had to find a way to make the deliverable. Above all, I had to make sure I had fun with every military model I created. Stay the course, you will be the happier for it. We are cheering you on
I wasn’t expecting anyone to bump this dusty old thread. Thanks for your encouragement. I have been secretly working on it again in recent weeks and hope to have something to show in the new year. I’ll reply properly to everyone then. Not posting in this thread has allowed me to get my thoughts sorted out somewhat, allowing me to enjoy modelling again. I’ve been recycling a lot of parts to get it done faster and missing out stuff that won’t be seen. When this model is complete it’ll be absorbed into a larger project i’ve wanted to get going for years. For now though, it’s one step at a time, aiming for slower but more substantial updates.
Thanks to everyone. I’ll be back.
Glad to hear your working on this again! I can totally relate to some of the trials and tribulations of working on a crazy detailed model. Sometimes it helps to take some time off.
Do you have any experience with Solidworks? If your the type that likes to model every nut and bolt, you might enjoy it. :shrug:I know at least here in the US, its a far more commericaly viable skill set than poly modeling.
Anyways, I cant wait to see some more renders of your progress!
-AJ
I think maybe you have the wrong focus.
Those mechanical parts, that you spend so much time creating, while hard & required obvious talent, to model in a 3D commercial package, are fairly standard work in a good CAD package. Its just faster to model in CAD & convert to surface data for rendering (since 3D package have very basic rendering options).
If you are interested in the mechanical stuff, I think your better chance is to learn CAD & maybe you can land a job at JaguarLandRover Engineering centre at Coventry or something similar which isn’t too far from Birmingham.
I do not thin most game or 3D animation company are looking so much into someone that can do very detailed mechanical parts. I think they will be more interested if you can model say a complete chopper, or truck, that will be of more practical use in game or animation environment. I think so anyway.
I am not a 3D artist, I only do this for fun. I do use CAD in my work, & in fact worked at Land rover before.
It's a good idea. I had actually blocked out the fuselage some years ago quite precisely, I just have never shown it. Around here, even your best work starts to look like crap :). It'll be used as a base from from which to cut panels etc.
Thanks for the kind and supportive words and the offer of help :). I may have to take you up on that offer at some point as every bit of progress is breaking new ground for me. I have cut down a lot on the details as i'm sure you'll notice. That was hard to do, as strange as that sounds. I've also adjusted my materials and HDR map to present the model in a better way. As for going to the gym, well... I got myself a stationary bike which is pretty good. Perhaps I should've bought a punching bag instead :P.
I've been considering switching to something shorter and faster to complete for a while. I'll still work on the helicopter but will use a more basic project for a distraction perhaps. Also about the other skill; i've been sporadically trying to re-learn coding, but without an objective so far. I'm thinking about setting a goal of writing an app. It could potentially be more lucrative than my 3D work that is not going to get me anywhere in a realistic time-frame.
Thanks for the support. Practicality is one of the things it's hard for an amateur not inside the industry to fully appreciate. You get this idea that you can do things at your leisure but of course, as I am realising, you still need to stick to a plan of some sort.
Thanks. I have experience of CAD packages. Technically yes they are designed for creating models like this, but having used them before I felt "trapped" by certain limitations they had. Once I had figured out Sub-D modelling, I left them behind. Sub-D modelling can be very frustrating, however, and some of the forms I made for this latest update were real head-scratchers. Assembled together it's hard to appreciate some of those shapes.
CAD software might well be more practical for this. Games companies may not need this level of detail, but this will hopefully end up as a flagship piece. I don't expect to be modelling everything regularly at such high-resolution.
Yes.
So after a few months of unpredictable delays and a sprained wrist later, I am finally working on this again. I realised after the advice I received that I should tone down the detail, so if there are any bits missing, my apologies. I've decided to continue only with the ATE version of this helicopter to avoid making even more work for myself. That's why this rotor-head looks a bit different from what you may have already seen. I've also fitted it with the latest composite rotor blades that have an "infinite" service life and never need replacement. As a result, certain cables from the old Mi-24 are superfluous and no longer needed.
I've also tried tweaking the render to make it easier to see the parts and make for a slightly more attractive rendering. There's a different environment HDRI and a gradient background (like a soap powder advert lol). I've used the same shades of paint and areas of naked metal that a repair and maintenance firm of aircraft uses that I found while trawling the net, so it's more realistic. Apologies for the glitches in one or two meshes; this was an unexpected flaw due to software issues i'll get fixed in due time; I just didn't want to waste an hour's render time so am uploading it regardless. EDIT: It was an issue with the renderer re-calculating the normals incorrectly - not a mesh problem. I'll add an "old-style" render for contrast.
Old style.
[[img]http://www.nightfall-design.com/CGTalkImages/Helicopter-Screenshot106.jpg[/img]](http://www.nightfall-design.com/CGTalkImages/Helicopter-Screenshot106.jpg)
New style.
[[img]http://www.nightfall-design.com/CGTalkImages/Mi24Rotor-Complete1.jpg[/img]](http://www.nightfall-design.com/CGTalkImages/Mi24Rotor-Complete1.jpg)
[[img]http://www.nightfall-design.com/CGTalkImages/Mi24Rotor-Complete2.jpg[/img]](http://www.nightfall-design.com/CGTalkImages/Mi24Rotor-Complete2.jpg)Well if that is what you call toning down, I suspect you won’t have any complains man. Good going and happy to see you working on it again!