Apple Reveals new Mac Pro at WWDC 2013


#61

rofl, good grief… it will never shake off the bin and ash tray comparisons


#62

Source link please.


#63

Bold? Hardly. Have you paid any attention at all to Apple’s pricing and strategies in the past? I seriously doubt they will deviate much from the past. Call it an educated guess. :shrug:


#64

Ops, looks like that was just an estimate from some blogger. I was sort of half brain dead when I read the article, so I wasn’t paying attention. :blush:


#65

A few things people are completely forgetting about.

The main drive is insanely fast. I mean nutziod stupid mental - and with the ram and expandable options it’s going to be one swift machine.

The graphics cards are swappable it seems. A buddy at wwdc has asked this already BUT at the moment it’s just this non disclosed AMD Setup. But they are proprietary new form factor - so it’s up to Nvidia / OEMs to actually make them and Apple to have drivers I suppose. I suspect that it will launch with a few AMD options.

At least the new premeire / AE / CC are supporting AMD core technology now. But I know how you lot feel about Adobe these days :slight_smile:

90% of mac pros I have used in Soho have been stock with 1 possibly 2 Sata 7200rpm drives. Not remotely enough ram and most have not even had they After effects multi proc enabled ( not that it matters as they only have 8gb Ram - 2gb per core needed - Xeons multi thread 12 core - so 48gb )

For 3D and video shops this is going to be great. Imagine a 20gb thunderbolt network - using shared 20gb/s storage, even shared PCI-e cards. Why buy one for everyone when they sit there doing nothing most of the time. Encoding / audio etc.

One things for sure Graphics bods don’t like change at all. Yes. It does look like a pedal bin. Or one of those micro jet engines.


#66

I think the the whole design is brilliant.

Along with previous apple fashion of making the new line cost the same as the old line, these will probably cost just as much as current Mac Pro’s. So you can get the lower end one for probably around $3,000. The one with more ram, storage and cpu hz for up to $5,000 depending.

Which you know, I think it’s cool this comes with PCI-E flash storage stock. Which is basically what the OCZ revodrive is, which to get 480gb revodrive for PC is $1,000.

So if you do a quick rundown here.

$1,000 for 480gb OCZ revodrive
$2,400 for two six-core intel chips at moderate clock
$2,400 for two next-gen pro graphics card with 6gb of ram

Already just for the SSD, cpu’s and gpu’s in PC pricing terms, you’ve already at $5,800. Let alone still needing memory. Plus a case, power supply and cooling system that won’t be as awesome as what Apple has here. I don’t see why some people rag on it being a cylinder, putting everything around a central heatisnk core, so you only need 1 heatsink and 1 fan for everything is brilliant.

If you can get everything described in the base model for only $5,000 it will be a steal in comparison to a comparably priced PC. Ya there isn’t any ‘ultra-cheap’ option that can compete with ultra-cheap PC workstations pieced together by bottom barrel components. But you know how Apple is, they only using the latest and greatest top shelf components. Which ya some people might complain about that. But after you have a PC workstation die on you because you saved some cash on cheaper ram, or cheaper power supply, or cheaper mobo, or cheaper SSD, and then one of those things fail. Spending an extra $1000 on a workstation to ensure all components are top tier and under full warranty is really a no biggie to me.

We will see when it comes out. But I suspect whats described will be $5,000. Which is an entirely fair price for what you get, and plus the fact you get to use OSX, which is worth the premium alone.

The ONLY thing that really worries me is look here:
http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
Scroll down to where it says ‘Graphics’ and describes it has dual gpu standard. It is showing the part of the internals where it has two identical sockets. Are those two identical sockets two gpu’s? Because the whole thing only shows a total of 3 sockets. If the two identical sockets are gpu’s as that Graphics. page would suggest, then that means there is only 1 socket for the CPU. And they are planning to put in a 12-core xeon, and have it be single proc only. Which I hope isn’t the case.

I hope that Graphics page aiming at the two identical sockets is an error on their part. It would be kind of stupid of them to use two gpu sockets to get dual gpus when you can so easily just get two gpu cores on the same die now.

Another snippet on Apple.com says “It works by conducting heat away from the CPU and GPUs and distribute”. CPU and GPUs … CPU is not plural…


#67

NOOooooOOOOooOOOOOO!


#68

To be honest a super-compact solution with storage being external, when speed is no issue, is not bad at all actually. Most of their customer base, and editors in general actually, are already more than used to having all their drives outside their box.

TB2 has no limitations in dealing with storage, adds only a small extra cost (the prices are more an issue of mark-up and exclusivity than production costs, which are no different than a USB3 device), and it can be daisychained, which means a 6TB raid10 stack becomes very small, only has one cable coming in and one going out, and the monitor can be part of that daisy chain, and will be just as fast as the best CPU supported sata controller available on mobos internally.

On one hand it’s not a bad piece of tech, on the other they promised no less for the cube time ago until it melted holes through people’s desks and ended up being retired early. And the design seems rather uninspired for an Apple piece.

The coupling with ATI is a bit of a concern too, as is the xeon only format given xeon at this point are very underwhelming for desktop computing outside of rendering and SOME sims.


#69

However I do think the cpu PCB does look like it has some room on there that you could potentially rearrange some things and fit two sockets.

This is just a preview… maybe there will be a two cpu socket version.


#70

The pairing with ATI doesn’t surprise me nor concern me too much. In the world of OSX, Nvidia doesn’t really have any advantage. Apple makes sure that all pro drivers are up to par, so the issue of Nvidia sometimes having better drivers on a PC doesn’t really apply here, the ATI drivers will be perfected on OSX before shipping for sure. Also Apple has clearly expressed they are in favor of OpenCL and are not going to invest with CUDA. Which OpenCL vs CUDA is an argument in itself, but I don’t think anyone here wants Nvidia’s proprietary standard to win over an open one. Apple certainly doesn’t, which is partially why I suspect they are doing what they are doing, using AMD, writing top-notch built-in OpenCL drivers and ignoring CUDA completely. Apple doesn’t want nvidia to gain any leverage over them by Cuda becoming essential and necessary. Apple will resist CUDA and nvidia having an advantage because of it. Apple will probably win that as well. Which is why I think CUDA will fade and OpenCL will mature and become mainstream. So lack of Nvidia I don’t think is an issue. Also Apple has tended to jump back and forth between nvidia and ati in the past. So I don’t think it’s a pairing. I imagine Apple plays the companies off of each other, so neither ATI and Nvidia have negotiating leverage over Apple. Which is also all the more reason Apple is going to try and push OpenCL to more prevalence than CUDA I think. If CUDA became necessary, that means Nvidia would have more negotiating leverage over Apple and could pull more cash out of Apple.


#71

Well I feeling a huge relief. After FCPX I was seriously wondering if PRO had a space within all the iStuff. But it’s obvious that Apple has given this a fair bit of consideration so I don’t need to go back to spending hundreds of wasted hours dealing with PC problems, I can be an artist and not a PC repairman/artist.

At the end of a 3 years upgrade workstation cycle, mac’s turn out to be about half the price as PC’s in my 12 year experience.

Don’t fall into the trap of looking-at-the-numbers tunnel vision when making decisions on workstations is my limited advice.

I’ll be getting a new Mac Pro without a doubt.


#72

how do you figure?


#73

When I saw it, my first thought was bamboo’ed sticky rice in my country…

http://images.thaiza.com/177/177_20090227153234..jpg

Second thought was a trash can.


#74

I laughed at 0:14. The caterer didn’t look impressed: What’s this shit - I got two and mine are bigger.


#75

Hundreds of wasted hours dealing with pc problems WOW! Grandma I didn’t know you posted on cgtalk.


#76

:surprised well… I can roll it


#77

External storage isn’t my main concern, it’s that chances are you have to buy it from Apple at astronomical prices.
I definitly agree with the heat issue, i honestly don’t think this will work out without the machine downclocking all the time due to overheating.
Also there is the issue of where to put it. Under the table is no option due to it working like a vacuum cleaner, on the table will require you to wear headphones when you start rendering.
I like the design, from an estethical pov as well as a technical pov, but i somehow doubt that it was the engineers that had the last work in how it should work.

Cheers
Björn


#78

The Cube had passive cooling (ie. no fans at all). This however has one large fan that draws in air through the entirety of the case. Quite a difference.

The big question is how quiet will it operate under load. The wording from Apple’s own page makes me think it’s quieter than the current Mac Pro, which would be quite a feat.


#79

Nah. Thunderbolt has been available for a while now, there are plenty third parties providing storage.

Apple doesn’t even own the name anymore, it’s been transferred to Intel a while ago and there are several involved makers into it.
Promise, Asus etc.

The first big storage for sale wasn’t even Apple’s, it was the Pegasus.

The point isn’t that the cube was inferior, the point is Apple has very, VERY frequently hyped some product’s noise levels and revolutionary technology only to deliver something that in actual use caught on fire. Some times literally.
So, bear with me if I’m a bit skeptic until I actually see some independent tests saying whether it can take a 48h rendering marathon without setting fire to the tapestry or not :wink:


#80

The amount of complaints about how anti-pro this is is inversely related to how pro (and future tech savvy) you are it seems.

Just because you are on CGTALK.com doesn’t make you ‘pro’.

There have been and will continue to be strategic changes every manufacturer of ‘workstations’ has to deal with. ROI on some tech has been declining, software is slowly but finally catching up to the actual horsepower that has been sitting there for years. The market is changing, what it means to do DCC is changing. This is not 1999. What is means to be a ‘pro’ is also more than the extremely small niche that is “high-end 3D”.

Even if you think simply because you are on cgtalk.com that everyone and their dog have DIY cheapo renderfarms “that are waay better than anything Apple could possibly sell me” running your graduation shorts or doing blockbuster VFX, this is not the real world.

The real world is the segment that is getting more broad in skillset and has needed a optical drive 2 times in 9 months. The real world doesn’t upgrade every year. The real world doesn’t even know how to selfservice computers.

Stop and count to 10 and comment (or don’t). The usual comments are getting old and show you really have never priced a pro workstation because than you would know that Apple hardware has always been priced competitively in the high end and you would also know that most upper mid to high-end shops don’t upgrade yearly.

To offer competitive pricing on workstation gear Apple has chosen a strategy which means
offering a product that competes in the most interesting segment so they can offer economy of scale.

And that’s not using Blender in your moms basement and that might also not be rendering unrealistic scenes with all bells and whistles on just because you can.

It means the thousands of people who don’t have time to bother with running benchmarks because they are busy doing a 100 animations for some B2B event for a compamy you’ve never heard of.