Any body see "SILO"?

#2

Yea, Silo has some potential, but truly requires some working ouit of some pretty serious bugs, as well requires some basic tools implimented before they get too fancy with any advanced sets… also the workflow needs some tweeking, ok, alot of tweeking… definately something to key your eye on, but for now, well Wings rocks eh… widgits would be nice though hahaha :smiley:

#3

and i ask, why would u pay for it when wings is free?

#4

My thoughts exactly. It has not reached the level of Wings 3D yet so it is not worth the money yet. It needs to come alot further before it can match wings ease of use.

They are still missing a virtual mirror/symmetrical tool function.

Worth watchng though. If the team is big enough they could eventually pass wings.

Jay

#5

Playing with Silo I have came a cross a few bugs, but no more then other programs, especially since I don’t fully know how to utilize the program yet.

@IBOX, just courious, but what basic tools would you say needs to be implimented in Silo? Then what would you say Wings needs?

True, the workflow needs some tweaking, but the first thing I did was set up the interface like wings (point edge, face and object selection across the top of the screen). I was really impressed with the ability to add buttons to the screen (all four sides) and be able to create your own graphics for the buttons!

DON’T GET ME WRONG I LOVE WINGS, and Wings has been on the forefront of me learning 3d during the last 3-5 months, but there are other methods of modeling I’d like to explore.

@BITMAP, right now I don’t see a great demand to buy Silo, but some of the reasons I’m looking at it or that it grabbed my attention were the Point-to-point modeling method for better (or quicker) control over modeling to reference images. Sure you can do it in Wings but my results have only been ok. The “four view” at a click of a button, and the thought of what the Character Tools plugin enclude. I’d really love to pose my models with bones!

I would suspect that Wings will have a preference setting one day for “four view” or save geomenty window settings for each window (rather than resetting after each load), and Bones, but that could be a year away.

And I suspect point-to-point is impossible with Winged Edge technology.

As stated before, Silo just caught my eye and thought I’d see if anybody else had a reaction to it.

//negative9//

#6

n9 - Could you give a few more details about why ‘point to point’ modelling with ref. images in wings is lacking - as opposed to ‘different’?

(Am assuming ‘ptp’ is adjusting verts - on an individual basis - to match up with ref images along all 3 axes, btw - correct me if I’m wrong :slight_smile: )

pp

#7

In C4D,when modeling to ref images,I tend to lay down points,
one at a time,and then duplicate and move that row,adjust and repeat.
Then I use the make poly or bridge tools to connect the points and create polys.
This is off course not possible with the winged edge data structure,
and I guess it’s just a matter of preference,but when doing a car tut the other week,
I discarded box modeling and went with point to point instead,
because that lets me do each panel on it’s own,and it just gave me better control.

#8

Silo is great…Costs tho.

Still,it’s got the manipulators and the poly by poly methods every new Wings user craves for…

It’s not comparable,Wings is just the best thing after sliced bread as far as free 3d software are concerned. :slight_smile:

#9

Hi negative9…

first off, I have to leave for work in a moment or two so I will lay down a few obvious points then come back after to give ya the total story as I see it…

Yes, Virtual mirror is a must eh, as in how it works in Wings, just the same as Wings needs the autoupdating subd as is found in Silo hehe…

but before all of that, simple stuff, like… pop a cube on the screen, extrude out a couple of times along one axis, thus now having a 3 segment rectangle… now try to do a “windows” type grab selection of the first segment from the front face you have already selected… better move around and take a look at the back faces as well, because selecting in this manner doies not select the back faces, least ways not for me eh… and totaly missing for me is the usage of the =/- signs for this task as one would find in Wings eh… and undo doesn’t take one back through selections as it does in Wings eh… so, if ya blow it ya have to start the selection from the begining again…

so you see, right from the git go, real basic workflow stuff is hampered through the app design eh… yup, right from a simple couple of ops with but a basic cube it begins… the frustration :smiley:

more to come :smiley:

#10

Yes, a virtual mirror is needed, and will most likely be available in the Character Tool plugin.

You can select the backface elements with the MMB when selecting, as the LMB selects frontface elements. This is much nicer IMHO for selection, because you don’t have to worry about selecting something you didn’t want to and then have to clean up that selection.

The workflow of Wings is way better, but the realtime SubD speed is just too fast to ignore. I’ll keep my eye on Silo, and see if they do indeed add in a virtual mirror mode, fix bugs, and improve workflow issues.

#11

hey tjnyc, thanks for the info re front and back selecting, your right, that is pretty cool…

but… the rest of this basic selection condundrom still stands eh, and so yea, Wings rocks and Silo requires work hehe…

Man, just wish they would put widgits in Wings and get it over with eh, add the auto update for the subd, perhaps change up selection to match that front back bit in Silo, and by having to use the shift key then that would open up keeping same tool active as is found in C4D… and that’s pretty much it, other than slide and draw eh :wink:

#12

Just gave it a whirl, i was quite underwhelmed.

#13

underwhelmed eh? as was I. :shrug:

#14

Silo is not quite there yet, but I still think it has some good potentual. What the developers really need is an active forum so they can modifiy their development to user request.

I like alot of the features it offers, but they sound better than they execute, at least out of the box. Lot of adjusting. I had to increase edge density to 2, move my selection buttons to the top and reassign them to wings3d keys so I could have some remanince. “L” for Edge Loop, “G” for Edge Ring ect…, but the options were there.

Navagation in perspective gets off-wack quickly, and I had LOST my model in it and could never find it again, but I emailed Nevercenter the problem and suggusted a “View Reset” option…they replied and said its coming in the next release(1.02), so that was good.

I still say Silo is a program to keep an eye on, but not quite up to par with wings or even with what Nevercenter says it can do - yet.

As said before it seems to have all the features people ask wings to have, but skipped right over the basics/foundational tools - Flatten, Loop Cut, Move/Extrude along axis, ect…

PuzzelPaul - on the ptp modeling. I like the ptp method over The Wings method (never said wings ways lacked - just a little harder or longer to accomplish) because when you place points and edges down they are already where you want them to be as is your geomentry, no cut 5, connect…connect…connect…ect then move points and edges. It was the first method I leared how to model with, to a reference picture. I have been playing with different approches to modeling with reference photos in wings, and still haven’t found something I can quite sink my teeth into. Wings could really use (in my option) a Splice Tool, or Knife Tool, or what ever you want to call it - where you can pick where on the edge the vert is going to be and where on the following edges it is going to connect to - that would be a GREAT IMPROVEMENT to modeling to reference images.

Wings3D, as a modeler, has everything it needs, BUT that Knife tool! Other than that the tools, I feel, are A-Okay. A little tweaking here and there on some of the existing features, like the Materials Editor( a way to store materials like discussed on the develoment forum - SOMEWHERE?), the Auto UV (Though now it does good by me), and maybe compiling in that “Slide” I hear so many people rave about.

I do miss the old way to activate magnets:(

For the future, I’d really like to see Bones, and Bone Deforms for posing characters.

I’m done with my rant.

I thank everybody for there checking out Silo, and providing their options on it, my final judgement on it, for now, is “IT Sounds Better than it is”

//negative9//

#15

Silo is just on its first release so give it some time. The developers added some features we wanted in less than a week , it’ll only get better from now on.

Granted it has some huge workflow issues , hope they’ll iron it out soon.

#16

Very True! Their update did seem to add termendious features in a realitively short amount of time - I only hope they keep witht he flow!

//negative9//

#17

Silo is blowing up on the main forum

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.ph...mp;pagenumber=1

Some of you I have seen commenting over there, but when I first look there were only 1 or 2 posts, now there is like 13 pages…and posts from the developers!

So, maybe, continuted comments on Silo, in general, should go there?

//negative9//

#18

FYI The developers are adding virtual mirror and Tweak in the next release. - Baz

#19

n9 - thx for the ptp comments - it looks like I’m thinking about something slightly different.

When I’ve used ref images, I’ve extracted a single face (off a cube, say) added some more verts, then adjusted these to the relevant (cross sectional) shape (in XYZ ortho).

Once I’ve got the required cross sections, have then bridged between them (or extruded) etc to get a 3D solid.

It seems you’re talking (more) about placing new verts / edges on an existing 3D volume.

(Clacos Draw Loop plug does this, btw)

pp

#20

puzzledpaul -

When I’ve used ref images, I’ve extracted a single face (off a cube, say) added some more verts, then adjusted these to the relevant (cross sectional) shape (in XYZ ortho).

Thats pretty much how I go about ref images in Wings.

It seems you’re talking (more) about placing new verts / edges on an existing 3D volume.

No, actually as your placing the verts THEY ARE creating the 3d geomentry!

To better illistrate, this tutorial for Milkshape shows the idea in action

http://www.polygods.com/tutorial.php?tid=11&page=1

On a last note, Silo’s way of doing ptp is not quite what I thought it was going to be like (ie the above method doesn’t work). In Silo you lay down the verts, but the verts just create your plains, with the verts place in the right places, but you still have to do all of the connect…connect…ect to get the basic form to appear right.

//negative9//

#21

<< No, actually as your placing the verts THEY ARE creating the 3d geomentry! >>

Errr, yes, this was already understood - as it’s the whole point of roughing a volume (say an aircraft fuselage … ex- r/c aeromodeller here) - but unless you have cross-sections at every position where there’s a (different) detail (often impractical) then features between sections have to be added afterwards to the geom created by bridging between the sections - I assumed you were talking about ‘cutting in / creating’ these details with a ptp approach.

Something like Clacos Draw Loop plug could be used to good effect in these circumstances - although Cut RMB is also quite useful (esp. if used with D on a group of edges)

pp