And Now More Joy -- Final Render is Rental Only!


#1

That’s right! Based on the press release Edwin and Co. just put out, it looks like Final Render has some great new technology, and you can have it and continue to use it …until you stop paying them a nice clean revenue stream.

Oddly it’s exactly what I sarcastically/jokingly referred to in another web forum:

So you rent Max, but they strip out MR…but that’s okay, because now you can rent a RENDERING ENGINE!!!

I’ve been worried that Max wouldn’t continue to develop their own modeling tools, but it’s okay now because I’m sure I can rent some somewhere.

I can’t blame Edwin for exploiting a bit of nastiness that everyone now seems to have embraced (at least the big companies have).

My MAX sub ends in January, and I was 99.9% certain I was done and going 100% Houdini (Indie, which I KNOW is ALSO a rental, but costs me less than Spotify) …when I started to hear about the new FR I thought maybe I MIGHT, just MIGHT do one more year…then Cebas went rental. So that decision got easier.

I can’t fault a company for trying to act in their own best interest, but I can’t afford to get on this train, particularly when at some point (NOW?) the rental FR will no longer work with the perpetual Max.


#2

Thank Adobe as they are the ones that proved that you can force your users to Subscription. The problem is this is the direction the industry is going and not enough people will be able to walk away from rental only options so it won’t go away. The scary part may be that if you won’t use rental, then you may need to find a new industry.

-Eric


#3

That seems really uncompetitive compared to Vray to be honest. Especially limiting the GPUs you can use in one machine.


#4

Good point P_M…I am just this guy who fiddles around with art and sad realities of the market place are just…sad.


#5

So… so you have a problem with rental or pricing?
If you have a problem with rental, how on the earth Houdini Indie would be OK?

Is there any guarantee that SideFX would not raise the Indie price or discontinue?
Since it is rental only, you are bound to whatever they do. Exactly same as Autodesk.
Don’t you think at least you need to be fair?


#6

well, the difference with houdini indie (bought it myself just days ago) is that it is ridiculously cheap. Even if they doubled the price it would still be a good deal (oh and it has a capable render engine too). So, I paid about as much for 1 year houdini as I pay for 1 MONTH of max. I could also still buy a perpetual houdini FX license if I wanted to - impossible with max and fR.
3rd party render engines usually aren’t cheap - fR for example costs way more a year than houdini indie - but it’s usually a good investment. The thing is: once there are no updates anymore (what is exactly what happened with fr 3.5) you are stuck with paying for as long as you have projects done with fR. We would have been forced to buy fR licenses every single year over the past 4 or 5 years just because we have a few projects which were done in fR and needed a few adjustments for a client.


#7

That is exactly same with Houdini Indie.
If the rental is problem, the rental is problem.

Yeah, you can buy FX lic. $4495 + $2485/year + $800/\year per sim lic?
Good for you if you can afford.


#8

No, it’s not the same. That’s the whole point. I CAN buy an “expensive” houdini fx license - can’t do that with max/fR. I chose not to and go with a indie license for now - for my personal/hobby use btw, something I would never be able to do with max.
I can buy also a houdini fx license and be done with it - no maintenance - no subscription and use it for as long as I wish. Depending on how you use it, it’s not like it is much more expensive than max. It sounds expensive but renting max a year costs me 1904 euros a year (according to the autodesk website). Well, then add a few plugins (fume or phoenix/fluids/TP/forestpack/railclone) and you will end up paying more in the long run. So much for “if you can afford it”.
Long story short: I have options with houdini but I have exactly 0 options with max / fR.

Btw, there also is a cheaper core version of houdini. If you compare the features of that edition to max, it would probably be more fair to use that one in a side by side pricing calculation.


#9

Well… then DO NOT bring Houdini Indie in to discussion when you are complaining the rental.
That is the rental only software,
You can recommend FX.

“add a few plugins (fume or phoenix/fluids/TP/forestpack/railclone) and you will end up paying more in the long run”
FumeFX comes with 2 sim lic and you don’t pay every year.
Houdini sim lic is $800.0/year and rental only.
I sim lic cost more than entire year max rental.
We have 3ds>ax with most plugins and Houdini at work.
40 lic of 3dsMax + plugin cost far less than the lic for 8 HoudiniFX and alll sim lics.


#10

Wasn’t me :slight_smile:

[quote=]“add a few plugins (fume or phoenix/fluids/TP/forestpack/railclone) and you will end up paying more in the long run”
FumeFX comes with 2 sim lic and you don’t pay every year.
Houdini sim lic is $800.0/year and rental only.
I sim lic cost more than entire year max rental.
We have 3ds>ax with most plugins and Houdini at work.
40 lic of 3dsMax + plugin cost far less than the lic for 8 HoudiniFX and alll sim lics.[/quote]Well, rental of 3dsmax costs 1900 euros a year here, no idea why it is so cheap on your side. Houdini prices increase after 5 (node locked maximum) lics per facility, so here we begin a completely different discussion. But besides, I don’t argue that buying sim lics for houdini is expensive (just 499 btw if you need 5 or less), it definitely is. But again it depends on how you use it. This thread is not about which dcc is cheaper, you are probably right and I was wrong, houdini will cost you more (depending on your company’s size and/or unless you buy a lot of stuff for max etc) But still, this is not what this thread is about. I can chose to buy it or not. I can buy it once and use it for 10 years or rent it every single year. It’s the rental-only thing what was complained about, starting from the first post - I just did a follow-up post about the houdini indie aspect.


#11

No, I don’t like Houdini Indie being rental, but Sidefx as of this moment (to my knowledge) has an avenue to perpetual.

It doesn’t have to be as pure as you say, but frankly if I AM going to rent, I’m going to rent the one that is clearly superior for my work. But I still hate rental. And you want to keep it pure (you like rental or you don’t) but in business it is relevant that I pay less per year for Indie than I pay for Spotify.

If I am to rent, then Houdini Indie minimises the pain by having frequent, significant and awesome updates. Max is a joke in this regard…and now Cebas is jumping on this business model after failing to make fR compatible with the newest Max for years. You’re likely renting a product that won’t see new features/improvements until 2020.


#12

So… in the end, the rental is not THE problem.


#13

Yes it is. The fact that there is one other product that has the SAME problem but has other benefits does not mean I don’t oppose rental…AND as has been pointed out MULTIPLE times to you, the issue is FORCED rental. I can get a perpetual license for Houdini…I have that CHOICE. At this point you aren’t getting it because you too have made a choice.


#14

I’m totally OK with recommending HoudiniFX or Blender whatever.
You should not accept Houdini Indie since you have a problem with “rental”.
What would you do if SideFX drop Indie next year?
Will you happily buy HoudiniFX to just access your old work?


#15

I’m probably the oddball, but maybe that’s why we’re not getting each other.

I hate renting software…you don’t seem to believe that but it’s true.

If Sidefx dropped Indie I would buy the full license. Right now I am on Indie, and have come to love Houdini enough that if there was no Indie, I would go full. But as I’ve stressed, they have (for now) given me a CHOICE and despite hating FORCED rental, it would be stupid with my company size to not take that option.

Maybe you’re right in that I wasn’t specific enough. I hate rental when I’m forced to rent. I thought that was obvious but maybe not…I don’t hate hamburgers but I’d hate if my favorite pizza place went Hamburgers Only

Behind it all, though, part of it is also that right now I TRUST Sidefx not to screw me over. That trust does not extend to Autodesk. And it does not extend to anyone who REMOVES options.


#16

I’m probably the oddball, but maybe that’s why we’re not getting each other.

I hate renting software…you don’t seem to believe that but it’s true.

If Sidefx dropped Indie I would buy the full license. Right now I am on Indie, and have come to love Houdini enough that if there was no Indie, I would go full. But as I’ve stressed, they have (for now) given me a CHOICE and despite hating FORCED rental, it would be stupid with my company size to not take that option.

Maybe you’re right in that I wasn’t specific enough. I hate rental when I’m forced to rent. I thought that was obvious but maybe not…I don’t hate hamburgers but I’d hate if my favorite pizza place went Hamburgers Only

Behind it all, though, part of it is also that right now I TRUST Sidefx not to screw me over. That trust does not extend to Autodesk. And it does not extend to anyone who REMOVES options.


#17

I’m probably the oddball, but maybe that’s why we’re not getting each other.

I hate renting software…you don’t seem to believe that but it’s true.

If Sidefx dropped Indie I would buy the full license. Right now I am on Indie, and have come to love Houdini enough that if there was no Indie, I would go full. But as I’ve stressed, they have (for now) given me a CHOICE and despite hating FORCED rental, it would be stupid with my company size to not take that option.

Maybe you’re right in that I wasn’t specific enough. I hate rental when I’m forced to rent. I thought that was obvious but maybe not…I don’t hate hamburgers but I’d hate if my favorite pizza place went Hamburgers Only

Behind it all, though, part of it is also that right now I TRUST Sidefx not to screw me over. That trust does not extend to Autodesk. And it does not extend to anyone who REMOVES options.


#18

I’m probably the oddball, but maybe that’s why we’re not getting each other.

I hate renting software…you don’t seem to believe that but it’s true.

If Sidefx dropped Indie I would buy the full license. Right now I am on Indie, and have come to love Houdini enough that if there was no Indie, I would go full. But as I’ve stressed, they have (for now) given me a CHOICE and despite hating FORCED rental, it would be stupid with my company size to not take that option.

Maybe you’re right in that I wasn’t specific enough. I hate rental when I’m forced to rent. I thought that was obvious but maybe not…I don’t hate hamburgers but I’d hate if my favorite pizza place went Hamburgers Only

Behind it all, though, part of it is also that right now I TRUST Sidefx not to screw me over. That trust does not extend to Autodesk. And it does not extend to anyone who REMOVES options.


#19

I’m probably the oddball, but maybe that’s why we’re not getting each other.

I hate renting software…you don’t seem to believe that but it’s true.

If Sidefx dropped Indie I would buy the full license. Right now I am on Indie, and have come to love Houdini enough that if there was no Indie, I would go full. But as I’ve stressed, they have (for now) given me a CHOICE and despite hating FORCED rental, it would be stupid with my company size to not take that option.

Maybe you’re right in that I wasn’t specific enough. I hate rental when I’m forced to rent. I thought that was obvious but maybe not…I don’t hate hamburgers but I’d hate if my favorite pizza place went Hamburgers Only

Behind it all, though, part of it is also that right now I TRUST Sidefx not to screw me over. That trust does not extend to Autodesk. And it does not extend to anyone who REMOVES options.


#20

I’m probably the oddball, but maybe that’s why we’re not getting each other.

I hate renting software…you don’t seem to believe that but it’s true.

If Sidefx dropped Indie I would buy the full license. Right now I am on Indie, and have come to love Houdini enough that if there was no Indie, I would go full. But as I’ve stressed, they have (for now) given me a CHOICE and despite hating FORCED rental, it would be stupid with my company size to not take that option.

Maybe you’re right in that I wasn’t specific enough. I hate rental when I’m forced to rent. I thought that was obvious but maybe not…I don’t hate hamburgers but I’d hate if my favorite pizza place went Hamburgers Only

Behind it all, though, part of it is also that right now I TRUST Sidefx not to screw me over. That trust does not extend to Autodesk. And it does not extend to anyone who REMOVES options.