Anatomy Thread of kary - 2D/3D

#1

Hi,

I’m hoping to improve my overall drawing ability, and able to communciate basic concepts (… to someone other then just myself :)). I do mainly 3D work and that is what I am hoping to develop a working knowledge of anatomy for:

I wanted a “fashion” height of 9 heads, but it didn’t really work out particularly well – so I went on the defensive and had a heavy costume:

   [[img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/action-sheet.thumbnail.jpg[/img]](http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/action-sheet.jpg)

   
  And the angel does a decent job of driving the cloth, so it worked out okay.
  
   [[img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/sketchs2.thumbnail.jpg[/img]](http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/sketchs2.jpg)

I’m trying to get gestures down. I’m doing those when facing a render bar, and I think making some progress. Limiting myself to a glance at a photo has helped a bit, and I’m considering doing a few from animals where I’d have fewer preconceived notions blocking me.

  Little drawing I did yesterday from a Rockwell:
  
   [[img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/weaklifting.thumbnail.jpg[/img]](http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/weaklifting.jpg)

After a few sketchs from Rubens last night I think I understand the benefits of the master copies – seeing their points of emphasis is huge, and what they did for a dynamic vs composed form etc etc. Really a hugely different experience when you’re running your pencil in the same lines that they used, instead of just looking.

On the 3D side I have a loosely defined character that I’d like to develop here. I’d really enjoy the experience of critque throughout the development… and hopefully learn a lot doing it :slight_smile:

#2

Heya kary,

Great to see your thread go up! Greatly looking forward to your future sketches / master copies etc. Your angel, despite some anatomical problems, really looks great! And am enjoying the gestural studies as well. I recommend checking out Vilppu when you get the chance, and doing just loads of Master Copies.

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#3

hey… your angle is looking good… what’s her name and phone #?

#4

Hi kary !

Nice start :slight_smile: This angel is looking really nice :slight_smile: Show us more of you studies :slight_smile:

Kepp at it !

#5

kary,

My apologies for the delay in terms of a paintover…I hope this helps! :slight_smile:

kary_Review-01.gif662x650

Here are before and after JPGs (in the 1st JPG, I had already sized the head up a bit from it’s original size):

Before:

kary_Review-01_A.jpg662x650

After (I did not paint her right arm):

kary_Review-01_B.jpg662x650


http://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/sitebuilder/images/226-340x600.jpg

[left]In doing the paintover I referenced the above image, which I Googled with the term classical torso. Classical statues can often be better sources of reference than photos of people since the forms are so well defined ~ which is essentially what you are trying to do with a digital 3D piece anyway.

Mainly I think a bit of softness in the torso / abs will help to make the figure more organic, and also a bit of asymmetry can help. Of course you will model things symmetrically, but you might try to break the symmetry a bit after completing the basic sculpt to give more of a realistic sense to the figure.

I thought the head was a bit small for the body and also that the features appeared a bit squished together. Eyes fall roughly in the middle of the face, and they were just a bit below that midline, giving the face a bit of a cro~magnon feel. :smiley: Also the arms and legs seemed a bit too symmetrical, looking at reference can really help here.

Hope this helps! :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

[/left]

#6

sturmkim: hah :slight_smile:

   [u][i]Trunks[/i]:[/u] Thanks. I haven't been trying characters (human or non) before much, but it seems like I should start. Characters are at the heart of most pieces, and it's just a matter of applying oneself to learn the language to protray them (or so I tell myself ;)).

Here the ones I did when I started to try organic modelling, they’re truly a fine example why having a minimal knowledge of anatomy is a must :wink: They’re generally about a year old now (I tend to organic backgrounds, so after I got the basics techniques down with these I refined a bit with marshmallowy gates and so on):

    [right][[img]http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6236/oldcharacters3pg.th.jpg[/img]](http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6236/oldcharacters3pg.jpg)
 [/right]
    
   [i][u]Rebecca:[/u][/i] That gets clearer the more I look at it. Beyond the rampant misplacements (which I was expecting) I see that the quality of 'line' is really important. I've got some almost comic creasing problems, the knees and elbows especially.

An enormous amount to learn about anatomy, and then theres the entire of question of applying it in 3D – a medium that’s happy to render everything plastic and unatural if you let it, should be a fun fight ^^.

  ------

I did another 15 minute sketch. They’re very fun. I was half thinking about it being mid step to fleeing instead of stationary, and haven’t tucked the leg back in. Ran out of time – maybe in another 20 pictures the tools and brush selections in these will get more natural :wink:

  [img]http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7707/2nd15miner9kh.jpg[/img]

Not exactly anatomy, but heres the first look at the environment that I’ll be setting my characters in. I’m setting up a new ceiling and walls, but it kind of works as an overview of the mood.

   [left][[img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/environmentstart.thumbnail.jpg[/img]](http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/environmentstart.jpg)
   [/left]
#7

kary,

Are all of the creatures you’ve posted in the first image to appear within your environment? One thing that might be useful is to quickly sketch in overtop of your scene where your creatures might go, and what their attitudes might be. This is where exercises like the 15 Minute Sketchathon might really come in handy. :slight_smile:

One thing I find disconcerting about CGTalk’s 3D Challenges is that the WIP images are amazing, and the final image disappointing. This is due mainly to a focus on the models and less focus on the composition and what you will actually see of the models created. Gesture in this instance is really important ~ and the blocking / framing of the shot. You might have for instance a foreground shadowy silhouette of a creature, with the others beyond, instead of a flatly laid out composition where all the creatures are lined up like action figures. :slight_smile:

The environment is just amazing, and I really love the organic work that you create. Looking forward to seeing more of this! :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#8

None of them actually >.<. Those were the only samples of creature work that I have, so I put them together to respond to Trunks. I have done a few more heads, when I was learning the very basics, but happily those are off in digital heaven (which is on a CD in a closet upstairs somewhere).

One thing that might be useful is to quickly sketch in overtop of your scene where your creatures might go, and what their attitudes might be. This is where exercises like the 15 Minute Sketchathon might really come in handy.

Now that is a good idea. I do try to get the characters in as early as I can (in this case “early character” is that redish 6’ box in the middle of the walkway ;)), but I usually don’t get them rigged in a intermediary stage so they look pretty… dry.

I started this scene unsure of what characters I would be able to build when I got finished. I figured that I would be able to make “generic creature in a pod” with relative ease, but the star figure was up in the air. I’m feeling fairly confident on my ability to build technically now, so I’m going for a self portrait influence ‘mad scientist look’ with some moderate disfiguration. Pod critter will be angelic (to the point of heavy obscuring glow most likely).

…instead of a flatly laid out composition where all the creatures are lined up like action figures.

Heh very true, that does happen. I wonder if the challenge environment itself does a bit of that. Working to a still instead of an animation (and knowing the quality thats expected of a CGTalk challenge) might have people reaching a little past their comfort zone on a technical front. That might result in a bit of stiffness when things aren’t as malable as one is used too… You also have a lot of people that are competant at modelling, lighting, texturing etc, but might not have experience in giving life and motion to a figure.

    Well it's hard to puzzle out, but it's definately a problem I want to avoid ;).
    
    ---
    
    At the end of this scene I want animation.  In my [last project](http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=373683) the set works on a 5 degree arc and then you're suddenly looking at nothing -- after that I'm building with the intention of animation from the beginning (though the chief aim is still pulling out 2-3 good stills). On the last thing just about the only thing that had any ability to move at all was the angel ;)
     
   Putting together an animatic with gestures and the 3d background makes a tremendous amount of sense...  tx! :D
     
     ---

I have had less time to draw this week then I would like. I did 3 quick studies from Leonardo at the top, and then a bunch of things from imagination at the bottom (except the v.bot right, which was from photos).

The worst of the three at the top is freehand where I was looking to see if I could capture value. On the others I took a few measurements while drawing. Very interesting to see how he laid things out, going to have to do a lot of these – it seems like you compact more learning, into the same amount of time, vs from photo ref. One of the nice things on Leonardo – with so few paintings available they have to fill up some space (in a book on him) with his drawings, interesting to see those.

Still very early days on my drawing unfortunately, it doesn’t feels like there is much point in spending a long time on a single image as I’m still taking baby steps ;). I should have a few hours tonight to draw, and I’m really looking forward to it (which is a great experience, my drawing was pretty depressing for awhile, but with some technique from Vilppu and Loomis and input here it feels a lot more fun).

     [img]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4377/25thsketchsjune063ge.jpg[/img]
     [left]
     I'll be starting on the characters for that scene this week :).
 [img]http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/428/75po.jpg[/img]
 [img]http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/6265/82am.jpg[/img]
     [/left]
#9

kary,

Great to see your updates, and I promise I read your text! :slight_smile: Your work is looking great, but I would say to focus on value studies at first, particularly for the 15 Min. Sketchathon pieces. Also, one thing I might request is, even though the small thumbnail thing looks quite cool (it’s a kary thing, for sure :D) it would be easier to see the images full size…sorry I’m such a nag about the particulars, hehe. :slight_smile: Great to see you challenging yourself and being open to new things. Keep doing those Master Copies in particular ~ you’re right, it’s the fastest and one of the best ways to learn. :thumbsup:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#10

I’ll promise text light this time :wink:

head-anatomy-thread.jpg555x1032

bunch-together.jpg782x519

3heads.jpg600x1200

Very quick stuff again. I’m having some large misses, but I’m happy to be seeing a lot of them quickly. I’m to the point where I want to be drawing / modelling with anatomy book open in front of me the entire time. That seems like a good thing, as long as I don’t obsess one mistake to the detriment of getting 3 other sketchs done.

Planning to spend a bunch of energy this week working on primative stuff – irritated at my tendancy to not think of the underlying shapes when dealing with noses, or how to wrap lips around, etc.

#11

Ack, the unfortunate byproduct of talking to you frequently is that I forget to reply to your thread: :smiley:

Here is a paintover for the front view of your Master Copy, hope this helps: :slight_smile:

kary_Review-02_A.gif772x650

[left]In a face such as this one, the facets are the thing ~ this guy has tons of them in his face, lots of subtle and not so subtle large and small planes where the light hits then falls off as the side of the form sinks away from the light. Now that you have some of the basic forms down, it’s a good time to really push / pull verts to give him that added character. Particularly in need of more emphasis is his brow, which is much more distintive and pulled forward than it is in the current model. His nose is also much more pinched just above it’s bulb. I think the eyes are looking great, it’s just the sockets around them that need to be further defined and sculpted. He’s in need of a bit of a brow lift as the current distance between his upper lids and eyebrows is really short ~ in the sculpture, his eyebrows are raised, giving him his comic, Jim Henson look. :slight_smile:

Here is the side view I think you’ve already seen, but just in case: :slight_smile:

[center]

It’s great to see you pushing your drawings as well! :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
[/left]
[/center]

#12

kary,

Also, another useful thing I think you might try at some point is doing pages of ears, noses, eyes, lips, chins, etc. ~ from all different angles, and all different types of people. Google is a great resource for this, but there are lots of other sources as well, such as the Web Gallery of Art, from which the 100 heads were selected.

It’s important both to do full studies of heads as well as to concentrate on individual features. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#13

Np at all, you do a ton and if I get stuck I tend to yell for help :wink:

Damn that frontal was a great paintover, tyvm.

The side one I’d already seen and partly incorperated. I’m on a bunch of differnet things at the same time, so I was forcing myself to work big and get key features down… I think I’m going to come back to this fellow though as that paintover is great direction.

Can’t believe the huge change to the overall shape, that’s awesome – turning him into an overall triangle is great (how do I not see these things?!). Big tx on the lips as well. I tend to get lost there more often then other places, I need to review my technique there.

(edit) Posted while I was posting :wink:

That makes sense, next time I run into a particular problem (like right now I’m just starting to understand eyes) I’ll take a run at them in my doodle pad with google up.

I don’t want to forget about full body work, so I’m working on the basic shapes stuff from Vilppu. Hopefully that helps me feel more comfortable with organics in persp.

Tx again Rebecca! :smiley:

#14

kary,

You’re welcome, always a pleasure to see your work. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#15

I tried painting digitally… definately interesting. I don’t feel like a natural painter, but I guess the tools are starting to get a little bit more clear for me. Funny a program that I have used a fair amount (PS) can feel so alien at times. There is some progress. All I need is another 100,000 reps and I should be good to go.

[img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/94mine.jpg[/img][img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/93mine.jpg[/img][img]http://www.karyblack.com/wip/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/63mine.jpg[/img]

I could almost not hate the one with the strange® hat. The mimeish one was a fantastic disaster that I hope to look back at and laugh. The chubby fellow is a fairly plain miss. Definately need to settle into working on specific parts… and so many problems to chose from! :wink: Lips and eyes seem to be the biggest deal atm, wrapping around spheres is hell for me. Very fun though, and I do feel like I’m learning a bit even in a very quick format.

#16

kary,

It’s good to see you experimenting, and I have the feeling that if you keep pushing with these, you will give some of our 2D artists here a run for the money. :slight_smile:

Particularly think the b/w piece has potential. Keep pushing with that one, you have to judge for yourself when you think it’s important to buckle down and focus on one piece, and when it’s important to do a larger quantity of pieces. Understanding comes in little fits and eddies, and sometimes you have to slow down to work out problems before continuing on downstream ~ how’s that for an analogy! :wink:

Looking forward to seeing your progress with these.

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#17

kary, I really love the quick gestural drawings you do. Your work is very expressive. It seems you still get a little ‘stuck’ when trying to get detailed in your drawings, but the quick sketches will help that. :slight_smile: It’s a tough fight to get past the brain’s interpretations of what we see, but you are definatly doing that. One thing I’ve found handy working in Painter (not sure which program you’re using) is the layers. I draw out a quick idea of the shapes and placement of the features, then turn down the opacity and start a new layer. I draw the next layer in more detail, and do it again. The third layer is usually where I start working on what will be the finished picture. I don’t know if that’s how you were working, but it’s what I’ve found works for me. :slight_smile: I love your leg muscle drawings and in that same picture, in the lower right - that woman is awesome! I also really love that quick black and white painting of the statue. :love:

Your 3D work is impressive. I’m amazed that you made such a great head from one picture. You certainly have a good idea of head proportions… I’m still getting there. There’s a big difference between drawing something with it’s natural perspective and working in a non-perspective view. :slight_smile:

#18

Ty both for the comments :slight_smile:

  [i]Rebecca[/i]: The b&w was extremely fun, and might well be something that I come back to -- even just for the sake that the character depicted is pretty funky. 
 
 I'd love to hit a few more fits in my progress!  And I &lt;3 the analogy ;) You're speaking the truth, especially in the bottom of this post I can see myself needing time just slamming my head against problem areas till they open up instead of moving onto the next problem.
  [i]
  Helen-Baq:[/i] Thanks for taking a look (especially when bandwidth impaired ;)). My gestural stuff has been a pleasant surprsie, I can 'read' them quite well after, and a few people have said that they're evocative for them. More then I expected really, historically I haven't had a lot of luck with them.

On the 3D: I’m starting to get a fairly good feel for that medium. I’ve done inorganics for awhile, but only started to break into organics recently, and it’s been wonderful. When modeling I spend a most of my time in a perspective or orthographic view. When doing that head I flipped back to a camera view that I set from the beginning (intended to match the original) which helped a lot.

  _______________________________________
  
  Quick digital, another quick fun one -- finding new problem areas to research all the time :)
  
  [img]http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1878/92mine8jf.jpg[/img]
  
  Done in a sketchbook with a ballpoint: 
  
  [img]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2417/untitled10jr.jpg[/img]
  
  I guess these images form the first thing that I fulled 'worked up' since I've started to apply myself to drawing.  
  
  First quick sketch to look at angle.  Quite amusing to see the overall shape here versus the final / photos:
  
  [img]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1715/pencil39bw.jpg[/img]
  
  Straight on study:
  
  [img]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8889/pencil21um.jpg[/img]

Final version. This is the first thing I’ve drawn where I felt I’ve spent time on it. A few dissapointments (eyes and shading inconsistencies in particular), but overall it feels great to take a shot, and a decent result for a neophyte.

  [img]http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1498/pencil1od4.jpg[/img]
  
  It's based on [me](http://www.karyblack.com/images/about-large.jpg).  ;)
#19

kary,

Great to see your progress here. :slight_smile: I think you’re really starting to get somewhere with the last self~portrait in particular ~ nice, calm shading, in the cheek area I recommend using shorter strokes as the longer / straight ones flatten things out. Remember the main thing about doing these drawings is that you’re not necessarily trying to produce a perfect drawing ~ I never aim for that, I always use the drawing to analyze the form that I am looking at ~ the drawing is merely a guage of how well I am doing that.

If you can get your hands on a Burne Hogarth book, I think that will really help as well. :slight_smile:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#20

kary - love the drawing from Rockwell in particular! Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing more 3d from you :thumbsup: