Anatomy Thread of Ghoul

#62

HEY …IVAN…:thumbsup:

I read you are struggling with the back muscles…random and unpredictable…for sure not the case with any of the muscles in any living form…:slight_smile: They are always predictable, if you know thier FUNTION…ACTION/REACTION type of thing…allows for motion.
Those OPPOSSING CURVES on the old masters drawings and paintings are much more than just an effect that creates rythum in the figure, …they are the result of the muscles in the figure working at whatever funtion they are set in motion to create.
In the back area, you have pairs of muscles that allow for twisting, strecthing, standing erect, and leaning forward, to ultimetly touch your toes.
Along side and running parallel to the spine, are two muscles that allow you to straghten and bend…erectus muscles…next to them on ether side, are the major muscles that allow for the twist of the torso…latisimus dorsi…next to them, are the side muscles…which allow for pulling the upper torso to the side. The latisimus dorsi and side muscles work together to give a sideways pull of the torso with a twist.
Then you have your shoulder blade muscle groups, which allow for shoulder twist, arm rotation, elevation ect. Above those, you have your neck muscles which allow you to look up and down.
In the case of a twist, one muscle group will be stretched out, while it’s opposite will be compressed /pinched/shortened,…which in turn gives you an OPPOSSING CURVE.
If you look in Burne Hogarths book…DYNAMIC FIGURE DRAWING, you will see this princible of oppossing curves/ muscles working/ funtioning, to CREATE MOTION…:slight_smile:
I took a class called Anatomical Drawing years ago…MUSCLE ATTACHMENT to bone/ MUSCLE FUNTION AS IT RELATES TO TO BONE MOVEMENT type of thing. If you ever see a class like that, and have the chance, take it. Totally different than a life/figure drawing class.
It’s a class that makes sense out of what you are seeing, so that what you see doesn’t seem random and unpedictable, and ends up making perfect sense…:bounce: :slight_smile:

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK AND PROGRESS …IVAN, AND STUDY BURNE HOGARTH’S DYNAMIC FIGURE DRAWING BOOK…MOST OF THE ANSWERS TO WHAT YOU ARE SEEKING, ARE WITHIN THAT BOOK…:slight_smile:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

#63

Hey Ivan, you are doing really great. I love your figure studies and how your are drawing them. I think you still need consistency in drawing those nice figures. I love your hand studies, really nice. Keep it up. Best wishes.

#64

Hey tizianoadmirer, thank you, the line quality… I think each medium has its advantages, producing different feeling if you know what you’re doing…

Hey Glenn,

Thank you for trying to explain some of those muscles. When I said seems unpredictable I meant I don’t know it enough yet so it looks random at glance, but eventually I hope I will get it all. The thing with the back is there are few layers of things, especially at the scapula region. the bone underneeth (and a very special bone) and two layers of muscles unlike any other part of the body. I mean there are superficial (is that the word?) muscles everywhere but they don’t affect the surface form. The shouder blade itself squashes muscles, even if they don’t contract and increases the amount of folds dramaticaly. And the other thing, I noticed when observing people around, is that there is always some amount of fat tissue. Even the fittest humans will have it somewhere. The problem is I didn’t find any drawings/articles regarding this - where does it accoumulate, how does it deform etc. It’s not about drawing anatomicaly correct ideal humans, with every muscle visible. It’s about drawing “realistic” figures with character and personality :slight_smile:

Regarding the Hogarth’s book… I only have the Russian translated version, so it’s a problem when it comes to reading :smiley:

thanks again

Maulik, thanks for taking a look! I’m not sure I get what you mean by “consistency”. You trying to say I need some rythm in the overall figure? I think that is true, and will come eventually… I hope :slight_smile:

Here’s another few figures, doing shading…I get surprised by my brain how I can draw those figures now that look more or less like normal humans, just from pulling some memmories and stuff I know about anatomy. We are really amazing creatures!:smiley:

#65

HEY…IVAN…:thumbsup:
Like that broad shading, and the movement your creating in the figures…:thumbsup:
That scapula bone, and the muscles and thier funtions that are attached to it, is one of the hardest parts of anatomy to understand . I remember the teacher would have a life size skelaton and a well defined live model standing next to it. The teacher would rotate the models shoulder and arm so that each muscle on the scapula would become visable, then she would point to the scapula bone on the skelaton and show just where each muscle was attached, and where it connected to, and would demonstrate by moving the models arm and shoulder just how each muscle on the scapula had it’s own particular funtion…Really an amazing piece of work there…for sure…:eek: :scream: :slight_smile:
I think that the flat surfaces/areas that you are seeing, are the ends of the muscles,…where they connect to the bone. As the muscle stretches, it tends to flatten out, more so where it connects on the bone. When the muscle contracts, it bulges in the middle, leaving less room for the flattened ends, which ends up looking like a dimple or pit on the surface of the skin.
In your drawings from imagination, you might try doing just a shoulder area/back view,…then check and compare to your own shoulder, useing two mirrors,…or a live model, if one is available…just a passing thought…Also on your drawings from imagination, you might really concentrate on the areas where the bone becomes visable on the figure, emphasizing the connecting ends of the muscles and tendons.
This will automatically make your drawings stronger, whether they be totally from imagination, or partially or wholely refferenced…If you study old master drawings, you will see that that is what they are doing…emphasizing the connection points of the muscles to the bones.
I hope this is of some help to you…just keep going, you are for sure heading in the right direction,…And get an english version of that DYNAMIC FIGURE DRAWING BOOK BY BURNE HOGARTH…will make your imaginational figure drawing a whole lot easier…:bounce: :slight_smile:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

#66

Hey ivan sorry for the confusion. I felt that in some figures (e.g. post 58) you have captured really nice gesture and rhythm but in few figures you lost that. So by consistency I meant you capture the gesture and rhythm in all your drawings properly. That is something I am struggling as well, but mainly I am struggling with consistensy in proportions. Anyway best wishes.

I like the latest drawings, I like the line drawings more than the rendered versions. I really love the way you do overlapping and foreshortening.

#67

Hi Maulik, thank you for clarifying what you meant! I think it depends a lot on my momentary mood, and how the environment afects me, when I draw, and how much focused I am, so, some drawings are better, some worse. I think it’s natural :slight_smile: Thanks again for comments!

Glenn, Thank you again, for explaining some stuff, and pointing me in the right direction! I am studying these muscles and bones now, and I am again amazed how nice and logical this stuff is, yet complex.

again, no refs exept for those partial studies in the bottom…The top drawing was some experimenting with lightning, putting it in unusual direction… also did some experiment with the paper, putting some of my photographs behind…

and the standing figure from the back is my first drawing after learning how scapula region works…upper trapezius on the right side is buldged, pulling the scapula upwards a little as the hand passed 90 degree angle to the body. the right deltoid contracts rising the arm. the left romboid pulls the scapula a little towards the spine alowing the arm to rotate to back a bit…that’s the logic by which I created this drawing. It’d help if someone told me am I missing something or if I’m totaly wrong somewhere :smiley:

thank you all for support!

-ivan

#68

Yeah I understand what you are saying ivan, happens to me too :slight_smile: But I really like your gestures.

I like the lighting on the figure you posted last. Hip bone on the right looks kind of odd to me, may it’s the lighting. How about making it darker?

#69

Hey Maulik, thanks again!

I decided to take part in fortnight ecorche cafe, because it really couldn’t have come in better moment for me! Will be posting progress in this thread too. So, here’s a quick start in Zbrush, defining some masses, nothing much

-ivan

#70

love your stuff ghoul especially those z brush anatomy sculpted studies. sketchs progressing nicely. keep em sketches coming, and a little more sketches using value to show volume.

#71

wow really good studies there. I believe that if you can feel the forms in 3d it becomes easier to draw the figures then. So I think this will really help you out. I wish I could use zbrush.

#72

hey, thanks guys for stopping by!

did some more of my 3d figure…defining the muscle masses and slowly moving to individual muscles.

-ivan

#73

Those are nice studies ivan, but somehow I feel something odd on legs in side views, may be that’s just me. I think sculpting different poses will help understand muscles better rather than standard standing pose.

#74

Hey Maulik! This pose is just for easier symmetrical modeling, and later I’ll be posing my character and make him ripping his skin off!

here’s the update, I’m getting serious with those muscles, trying to be clean and define everything and make it readable before getting into even more details (mucle fibers and stuff). Also I left the hands, feet and head the way it is for now. Will be looking at it later!

If someone spots something odd in the model please let me know! :slight_smile: by the way…are those pectorial muscles a little too broad?

thanks

-ivan

#75

nice updates Ivan, I like the leg muscles now :slight_smile: I meant that rather than posing a character after modelling why dont you model the figure directly in a particular pose. I feel it will help a lot more to understand how muscles work. Keep it up :slight_smile:

#76

HEY …IVAN…:thumbsup:

GREAT job so far…:applause:
I was thinking that if he is going to have big shoulders and chest, then he should also have larger wing muscles/latisimus dorsi.
If you make his wing muscles flare out more at the top, with more bulk, it will give his upper body that V shape that is always present in a well muscled male.
The V shape will enhance the proportions of your figure. Right now, you have the beginning of a V at the bottom, but then it becomes a straight vertical at the top, instead of continuing as a diaginal that creates the sides of the V.
Keep going,…he’s looking great so far…:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

#77

Hi there! Thanks Maulik and Glenn for suggestions.

First some traditional life drawings. Those were pretty quick and rough as the model was my girlfriend, and couldn’t keep the pose for longer period of time :scream:. But she is wonderful and enjoys when I draw her… Also I’d like to note that for the first time when drawing from life I was able to identify most of the structure, and I can say it really helps as you sometimes don’t see clearly what is there, but when you know what is there you can accentuate it in your drawing! great feeling :slight_smile: …still, there were some things and folds I just couldn’t understand…:slight_smile:


and here is the progress on my ecorche model…didn’t work much on it, defined some muscles better, did some head muscles, and fixed (hopefully) the latissimus dorsi V shape as suggested by Glenn (thanks again!) I’ll probably pose him next and continue from there…

comments welcome!

-ivan

#78

I really like your life drawings, am really impressed with proportion and rhythm. How long approximately did you take for each?

#79

hey everyone!

No update for quite some time, guess it’s how things work - with pauses :slight_smile: Also one month of my life got consumed by world of warcraft…

anyways, here’s some stuff I did recently:

few no-ref’d drawings, some traditional some digital:

a couple of life drawings:

…and my male ecorche, will let it as is for now, maybe come back to it sometime in the future:

Hope you like it!

comments are welcome!

-ivan

#80

…few more drawings, focusing on torso mainly, also trying to express with values and light. the first is traditional, no refs, just added some highlights digitally. The others are digital, referenced from various photos and drawings.

-ivan

#81

OMG!!!:eek:… How the heck did I manage to miss this thread!!!.. Awesome work on the ecorche, Ivan!!:applause:… I have a bit of a problem withthe legs, though… The gap between them at the crotch seem to be slightly exaggerated… same thing under the arm… a bit too much gap… when you look from the back. Fore arms seem a little short, and so do the legs…

Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:… will keep watching! :scream: