An unexpected find


#1

As I start to move away from Adobe apps (rental, no thanks!) I bought Apple Motion to replace After Effects. – it’s enough for my meagre needs and at £49 is a bargain. But then I discovered MotionVFX’s MO2 plugin which is, basically, Video Copilot’s Element3D for Motion. I only mention this as it works very nicely with Cinema4D (as E3D does)…

“mO2 allows you to import, edit and render .c4d scenes along with its keyframed animations, materials, Primitives and even MoGraph Cloner objects and their Effectors in the form of Instancers and Modifiers! All directly in Motion 5 and Final Cut Pro X at interactive frame rates!”

I’d never heard of this before the weekend, so figured I’d share (with macOS users).


#2

MO2 is good and has much to recommend it. I have used it on projects and it’s surprisingly good. E3D although great has not been updated for years so it seems tired in comparison. Motion too is great although I tend to find not many people use it so when sharing projects they are usually AE+E3D.


#3

Yeah, E3D has withered on the vine for the last few years. MO2 also looks easier to control on the viewport, rather than AE’s awful camera controls and weird coordinate system (but that might be just me).


#4

This could be a neat Mac alternative to U-render, but it looks like u-render’s native support inside C4d will be really hard to beat.

I need to check this out.


#5

I’m sure I read on a Facebook group somewhere that Andrew Kramer is close to releasing a new version of Element 3D and it’s supposed to be very impressive.


#6

His upcoming .vdb rendering for After Effects looks impressive.


#7

Andrew has been strangely quiet for a long time which makes one curious about what he’s up to.


#8

The VDB rendering in Nebula 3D looked great. It’s due for release toward the end of the year, I think, but nothing has been seen of it since NAB. It’s optimised to work with Element3D, but it’s a separate plugin. Hope it still runs in AECS6 :slight_smile:


#9

Darth - thanks for this thread! It’s so great to see a thread that is positive and intended to benefit the community here. MO2 looks cool and I hadn’t heard about it yet. Good for C4D, good for the Mac folks, good news in general.

I’m so tired of the bitching and whining that pollutes most threads here these days, and most of all those who, while they insist they are leaving C4D, continue to spawn new threads for the sole purpose of shitting in the punch bowl in a desperate attempt to poison us all.


#10

Yes a nice thread. In case you didn’t notice this thread is about great alternative software that doesn’t force subscriptions on users.

If you have something you’d like to address with me…I suggest a PM or a dedicated thread. I think Darth and the topic here deserve that much. No need to pollute this thread, I would hope you have the decency to see.


#11

My suspicion is that his wife said “get off that bloody computer and help with these bloody kids”. Happened to me!


#12

Thanks Andyland. I was surprised to find a developer I hadn’t heard of doing great things in Apple Motion. It’s also working on a puppet pin tool (like the one in AE), has a really great lens flare plugin, a raytraced volumetric light rays plugin, and loads of other LUTs and templates. When the new Mac Pro finally arrives I’m going relegate this 12-core as a render slave/backup, and it’ll stay on on Mojave (cos it won’t play nice with Catalina) and I’ll keep After Effects CS6 lurking on there until it dies. But so far Motion seems to do everything I need, with the capacity for being extended with plugins. I’ve already upgraded RSMB Pro and Denoiser which work nicely in Motion. With Affinity Photo, the nMP will be a (90%) Adobe-free zone. I might still use Adobe Acrobat Reader.

MO2’s ability to load and render entire C4D scenes needs further investigation… there’s a bit of video online, but not much.


#13

Well, this is a nice little plugin. I find it slightly easier to use than Element3D and it does a very nice line in shadows, planar reflections and even refractive materials. All real time – no post effects added.

!


#14

I really don’t get what all the resistance is to subscriptions - like those from Adobe and now Maxon. Generally the price is about the same or less (much less in the case of Adobe) than the outgoing perpetual model. Getting hung up on it by thinking of it as a ‘rental’ is just crazy IMHO. The argument I hear over and over is “If I stop paying, I lose access to my files”. To which I say, if you are making your living or even side hustle money off of this kind of thing, why would you stop paying for the sub? 1 job covers more than a year of my subscriptions to Adobe, Substance, and my MSA. If I ever stop paying, it’s because I’m no longer making money from it, and if that’s the case what possible need could I have for my old scene files? Hell, I can count on one hand the number of times in the last 16 years of doing this that I have needed to unearth a years-old file… But should you have the need to crack open or even work on something from your now former career, you need only either buy a single month to get in, or hope on the machine of a colleague to get in and get out… to be honest, I can only imagine this being an EXTREMELY rare occurrence… I can think of about 2 dozen motion graphics professionals that I know personally who have never had something like that come up. About the closest is when someone wants to refresh an existing package from a year ago, but that’s very unlikely to happen in a scenario in which the individual who made the elements no longer having access to their software.

It really just feels like ego at work. I’m not saying that to be insulting, we all have egos and they are known to break our rational minds now and then. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter a tinkers damn whether you own a license, or subscribe to a service. If you are going to do this work at a professional level, you need to use industry standard tools, because unless you work on an island, interoperability between different productions pipelines is crucial. Kneecapping oneself by using non-standard or horribly out of date tools simply puts you at a disadvantage.

Look, I’m not saying that Maxon handled this whole thing well - they absolutely did not - but it did not cause the sky to fall, despite claims to the contrary some here.

As for Motion - I do have it… I haven’t launched it in 8-10 years. It was cool but far too limited at the time, and then when the shark was jumped with FCP X I was more or less forced to leave that ecosystem behind. I may have to dive back into it, but way too many of my clients need AE files after the fact for me to switch over, but I am happy to hear its gotten some love.


#15

Good Gawd you are a pompous fool. The hundreds of folks bailing on Maxon are “ego driven”. Why of course, that must be it! What a Sherlock Holmes motivational sleuth you are!

Your post confirms you are vapid and vacuous in understanding economics, the nature of power and leverage…and value propositions of rental versus ownership. You most certainly have zero apprehension of what has happened with Adobe software advances since they went to subscription. (Virtually no palpable improvements to After Effects, for instance)

I will agree on this: Slave-scriptions are perfect for you. You are a natural.

You couldn’t even find your way onto an appropriate thread in which to dump this steaming pile.


#16

I am neither pompous, nor a fool, and I have no gap in my understanding of anything you point out above. But thank you for the completely unwarranted personal attack.

Since your reading comprehension is clearly suspect, I’ll help fill in the blanks for your tiny little mind.

At the top of the thread Darth calls out his distaste for the Adobe subscription, and since subscriptions are a hot topic these days from Adobe, Maxon, Autdesk, et al, it was as appropriate a place as any to weigh in on the topic in general.

Jesus, you insolent child, you whined and cried for weeks here before I called you out on it… god forbid I actually put my thoughts out there without you throwing a wall-eyed conniption fit. You clearly are done with C4D… why the hell are you even still posting on here?


#17

I am posting virtually exclusively on the Blender thread…

But your ignorant insults of those of us who understand the nature of the subscription game…demanded a reply…and yes a strong slap down.

I’ll spell it out for you:

-Unless you possess the sublime talents of someone like thePriest, you have no clue about your future.

-Some of the most amazing studios (big and small) have had to downscale or shudder their doors just years after lucrative years and award-winning work.

-We are overdue for a global recession.

-If you think you are immune to downturns or famine times…I suspect you grab some coffee for a wake-up call.

-Past creative work is a treasure, both in returning to “now how did I do that?” to providing a refresh for a client…to serving as a starter file for something new. And some of us happened to feel attached to our work artistically.

-You still don’t seem to apprehend what it means when your files are under another’s lock and key…(continue to pay or your hosed)

-And again…you have failed to note how subscriptions sooner or later ultimately de-incentivize software companies from EARNING customer patronage through advancements.


#18

Your first failing is in thinking I insulted anyone in that post. I even gave a clear disclaimer that I hadn’t. Ego is a real thing, and we all struggle with it - lord knows you hit mine with your reply. The very phrase “I don’t own it” is born directly from the ego, and the inability to let that go is the result of the ego defeating rationality.

Your second failing is in your unbelievably fatalist attitude. Man you’re dark. We’ve dealt with massive recessions before and we will weather the next one(s). In the last big recession from 2007, I got laid off from my job of 8 1/2 years, and would get laid off 2 more times within the proceeding 5 years. If when the next one hits I am unable to keep up with my subscriptions, at least I know the penalty for returning to them won’t be anywhere near as steep as if I missed a year of MSA. I may not apprehend that, but I do comprehend that.

And I disagree regarding your take on how subscriptions de-incentivize development. Adobe has been relatively stagnant because they are pretty much the only game in town, and I think this stagnation would be present with or without subscriptions. For a company like Maxon, subscriptions offer an opportunity to massively increase their user base by killing the prohibitively high cost of entry we had before. A larger base of users who have the freedom to cancel their subscription on a moment’s notice seems to me like it might both light a fire under the developer’s asses while simultaneously providing a stronger revenue stream to pay those people.

And your reply wasn’t a ‘slap down’ it was a f-ing tantrum.


#19

90% of the posts here at and at the C4d cafe regarding subscriptions have been angry, disappointed, disillusioned, disgusted. Your assessment that we the VAST MAJORITY of long-term loyal customers want to own things because of our ego? Gawd your thinking is skewed. And I don’t care how you try to tease out some nuanced meaning of ‘Ego.’ Epic fail.

Your patronizing posts are as insulting as they are silly.

You should do ads for the corner furniture rental stores…or the corner loan (rent-money) stores. These companies are known predators…but I suppose you admire the hard-luck souls who utilize them…so free from ego! What they are free of is their money…and usually…soon enough… their dignity.

As I’ve said 100x here over the years I have no problem with companies offering subscriptions AS AN OPTION.

Subscription-only is coercive. SLAVE-SCRIPTIONS


#20

You are a real world class a-hole, you know? I have not been patronizing in the least, and it has become increasingly clear to me that you come by your handle honestly insomuch as you are the intellectual equivalent of a caveman. I saw you admonish Scott over in the Blender thread for his relentless negativity, and all I could think was “Pot, meet kettle”. You are like a rigid tree in a hurricane. Your inability to think with agility and adapt to the changing times promises to leave you a broken shell.

Your assessment of me is so far off base that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetically sad.

Sitting there calling ME patronizing in one breath only to be exactly that in the next? I guess we can chalk up hypocrite your list of descriptors.

You say that the 90% of the posts on the forums regarding subscriptions are negative. I believe that… people are statistically 10 times more likely to voice a complaint about something than they are to voice praise. The rest of us are far too busy making a living with the tools to deal with the morass of the mindless fools like you who can’t see the forrest for the trees.

Oh and BTW - maybe crack a book now and then, my description of ego was not a fail to anyone even remotely capable of of grasping what is honestly a pretty simple and straightforward concept.

I suggest you work on finding the positive in a given situation, the black cloud you live under is going to eat you alive. In any case, I’m done with this and with you. I am juggling 3 clients right now and need to get back to work, but go ahead and vomit your useless nonsense all you want, you’ll get nothing more from me.