AM in Production


#1

Well, we finally finished a little commercial for our upcoming game “Tak and the Power of Juju” for Nickelodeon and THQ - and we did almost all of it in AM. It looks like we’ll be using AM for the cinematics, too - so we’ve been pounding on the renderer and Netrender, as well as speed issues and the like. Hopefully, everyone will gain from our pain and suffering… :wink:

As with most things of this complexity (although it LOOKS simple) a good number of folks kicked in their expertise on it. The only thing Avalanche WON’T claim is the sound - which we all were pretty unhappy with - it was done by Nickelodeon’s sound monkeys, and we didn’t have any say (so don’t hold that against us).

It was composited in AfterEffects, and the particle effects were done in Particle Illusion - the rest was done in AM.

It’s supposed to air during the Kid’s Choice Awards tomorrow night (the 12th of April).

You can download it from here:

ftp://ftp.hash.com/users/joewllms/Samples/Tak_&_Power_of_Juju.avi

(DIVX codec)

Joe W


#2

Bout time you posted this! :stuck_out_tongue:

Freakin gorgeous, very funny stuff… but I still wish that frog changed color. Great job JoeW and the Avalanche crew! :thumbsup:


#3

That is nice! Great job Avalanche!


#4

Really Good Animation, I love it so much.

Specially Love all the Detail motions.


#5

Sweetttttttttttttttt :love: :love: :love:

Sil3


#6

Yeah, caught it on the last half of the Kid’s Choice Awards last night. Looks even better on the big ol tv and to be honest it didn’t sound all that bad.

Now get back to work and finish that game! :beer:


#7

WOW!! My faith in AM is restored. That was beautiful.

Good to know that there are people on side with your expertise. I am pushing for a faster renderer myself but am not all that clued up on the topic. Hopefully good times are ahead.

Just one question (I could ask many), How did you get everything looking so smooth?


#8

It’s great to see AM being used to produce such a professional piece and it’s funny too. I think the music sounds fine, it certainly doesn’t detract. Wouldn’t Hash’s new sprites have achieved the same fairy dust effect?


#9

Im really glad to see AM used in production but Im still confused. When I read that someone is happy that AM has renewed the faith in AM (please this is not a flame bait!!!) I take this that AM is not seen this way. If its not why use AM? I would have left and used another app like Max or something. I asked this before and I am not getting it-maybe my friends are right and I am slow. But if so many people dont beleive in AM why are people still using it or still posting about it?? Very confused. I know people say that AM is full of potential but after so many years people are still saying the same thing about AM? Maybe I just dont get it.


#10

I think it’s because Hash has got a few things really, really right. For instance, ask just about anyone with in depth knowledge of AM’s animation and rigging tools and they will tell you it has been one of the best in these departments for many, many years. Literally leaps and bounds superior to the other major 3d tools out there.

Unfortunately while they have been way ahead in that, they have been behind in other things. Hash patches for instance. Years ago, they kicked the crap out of polygons, but with the rapid improvement in sub-d toolsets in the last few years, Hash patches just aren’t the best solution. Yes, a Hash model tends to be lighter in size (kb wise) then a comparable poly model, but the ease in which you can build and add detail in say Wings3d… just no comparison (IMHO that is)

Also take in to the fact that for years, AM was the only real moderately priced solution for 3d character animation. This attracted many people who came to love this quirky piece of software.


#11

People are still using A:M because for many things, especially animation, it still works well and most importantly to many it is very cost effective…it’s more affordable than any other package out. And quite frankly, the positive buzz has been up, with the improved render engine in v10.5 alpha and, lately on the list, talk of hair guides being implemented solving problems some were having. Good examples of caustics working has some excited as well.

Now many folks have moved on to other programs, but many have stayed because of personal investment in time, learning the program and money (or lack of money) and some have come back just to see what is going on. Those posting (like me) seem to have a passion for what A:M can do and what it may be capable of doing.

Many of us don’t give a hoot about whether it can work in a production environment. Many of us have no intention of working for any studio. Some think we can do something special with the software. But it is always cheering to hear news that it worked well when used in real production work when so many have said it can’t cut it.

Hope that helps clarify it a bit for you, binder3D.


#12

Sure did thanks for the reply! I just get bummed when I read some of the posts thats all. I really like AM and want it to succeed. I really dont read some posts on LW or C4d where they say something nice then something bad in the same post. Thanks again for you guys for posting!!!
:slight_smile:


#13

“if so many people dont beleive in AM why are people still using it or still posting about it??”

Speaking for myself, I’m unlikely to ever make anything as slick as this, and I don’t mean ‘slick’ in a derogatory sense. The reason is I don’t possess the necessary skills, talent or resources. I could be using Maya and still wouldn’t come close. But guys like me need to be reminded of the potential the software has so we can dream. And we use AM, because it’s cheap and great for character animation.
People have discussed at length the reason why more studios don’t use AM. Undoubtedly, if more professionals did, the program would be more highly regarded, I don’t really care. What would be of benefit to having more professionals using the software, is a more critical and vociferous AM community that would keep Hash responsive … just like this forum.

Ah, it’s taken me so long to write this post, I see I’m repeating what other folks have already said.


#14

Wow! Nice professional piece, JoeW!

Pequod, I KNOW you are capable of that level of work based on what I’ve seen you do already.

But I’d be curious to know, JoeW, how many people worked on the animation, including modeling, rigging, lighting and animating?

Maybe if we looked at a great animation example like this and understood all the effort that ALL the people involved, it wouldn’t be discouraging, but encouraging to others.

Thanks for any info!

Jim


#15

Very funny clip! It is very inspiring to see work like this, thanks for posting it:applause:


#16

Great piece of animation! :thumbsup:
Good work, man

Regards.


#17

Wow!. Congratulations!!!

The models and the animation are marvelous.

Very funny:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


#18

Originally posted by binder3d
Im really glad to see AM used in production but Im still confused. When I read that someone is happy that AM has renewed the faith in AM (

People have already answered you very well but I would like to add a point about why I said what I said (no offence taken by the way):

My point was mostly that I like to see proffesionals using AM as we need people who know what they are talking about contacting hash and telling them what is needed in the program. In the origional post, it was hinted strongly that this is what is happening with the new renderer. There are many other very talented people using the program (some of whom have posted above), but with every studio that I see using AM, my confidence in the program grows. The danger is that if it is only upstarts like me using the program then they don’t know what features to suggest. Hope this clears things up.


#19

Hey guys, thanks so much for the praise! When you’ve watched something over and over about a billion times, all you tend to see is all the stuff that’s wrong with it - it’s nice to know that somebody else got a chuckle out of it :slight_smile:

To answer some of the questions:


Just one question (I could ask many), How did you get everything looking so smooth?

This animation was created and rendered in 10.5 alpha, so we took advantage of the new surface sampling that Martin put in plus used porcelain with varying amounts of “Normal Weight”. Martin upped the surface tesselation to 4x4 in this iteration, and it makes a huge difference in how smooth, yet detailed a surface can look. Although I don’t love the idea of a material controlling the surfacing smoothness (seems clumsy to me), one thing that I think IS cool about porcelain is that you can put it on individual groups and vary the amount of “smoothing” you get from it by using the Normal Weight settings - kind of slick once you get used to it… I think it would be nice if porcelain was just a setting under the Group attributes…


Wouldn’t Hash’s new sprites have achieved the same fairy dust effect?

Well, they might have, but the last time I messed with them (a long time ago) the spriticle’s alpha didn’t make it into the image alpha, so you had a bunch of “squares” flying around. The other advantage of using post particles is the control I have over all aspects of how they appear - if they were incorporated into the image, and the art director said, “Hmmmm - I wonder if those particles shouldn’t be more blue…?” - I’d have to go back and re-render the scene. Since it’s done post (particles on their own layer), I can make the adjustments right there and answer his question. I’m a HUGE believer in doing as many things post as I possibly can - this “simple” animation had over 50 layers.


But if so many people dont beleive in AM why are people still using it or still posting about it??

Ah - it’s a total love/hate relationship. I know that other’s will have their reasons, but for me, AM is STILL the easiest package for rigging and animating - so much so that I almost can’t stand using anything else. It’s still pretty much my favorite for modeling and texturing, too, but LW is a close second (except for texturing - yech!). We have Maya, XSI, Max, LW and even Mirai here, but I’d rather animate in AM over any of them. Even after all this time, none of the other packages have managed to even come close to AM’s forgiving, simple workflow and tremendous ease-of-use… which is an amazing testament to how unaware the other developers are…


But I’d be curious to know, JoeW, how many people worked on the animation, including modeling, rigging, lighting and animating?

This is a good point - if you count everybody that had a finger in it, you’re looking at around 10 people. I’d say 5 of us worked on it full-time for about 2 weeks from concept to completion. Most people contributed to at least a few tasks (except the animators who pretty much just animated). I did the lighting, sufacing adjustments, effects, compositing, as well as some smaller animations (leaves) and modeling (I built and rigged the butterfly and some of the set parts - I know, “whoohooo” :). Most of the modeling and rigging was handled by 3 people. We had 4 people working on different aspects of the animations - some working on overall body movements, while others worked on facial animations and things like Tak’s hair (yes, it was animated by hand - eeek!).

I think that an individual could do something like this, but it would take them a lot longer (obviously). Another reason this took us SO long is that in addition to working through rendering problems and that fun stuff, we were constantly working on subtle changes here and there in the animation - tweaking hand positions, blinks, eye movements, expressions, etc. I think we went through about 6 iterations before we found something we were pretty happy with, and if it hadn’t been for the deadline we were under, we probably could have tweaked on it for another week.

The one fact that was driven home for me was how great it is to have a team working on something like this - even if we did argue like crazy about much of it :slight_smile:

Sorry this reply was so late - we go Alpha on the game tomorrow, so we’ve been working some pretty crazy hours… it’s lookin’ really good though… :slight_smile:

JoeW


#20

I searched around the net for information about the game, and found some alpha screenshots of the game.

I wonder if you could talk a bit about how you moved the AM patch models to the Playstation poly models. Did you just export them to DXF or similar? Did you decipher the MDL and ACT (or PLY and MOT) files? How did you preserve texturing, decals, information like specular shine?

-Sean Givan

Edited:

Hey… where have I seen that sheep before? :wink: