Abussive crits forum :)

#21

Can we have an ego forum? One where people just tell me that I’m a 3d god?

I’d like that. :smiley:

Seriously though, constructive crit is all thats needed and on the whole that’s what goes on here. But there is also a close community and that’s where the “I LOVE YOU!” thing comes in. I have to say it was quite nice having been away from the forum for a while to be greeted back so warmly. Although I’ve yet to get the repeated chanting of my name (see Piz’s current challenge entry! :smiley: )

Actually I’ve just remembered - who am I to speak of constructive criticism? I was the one who beheaded Pascals character on the first challenge :smiley:

#22

i believe that if you hear a lot of “ure a god!!!” u gonna start believing it. THATS VERY BAD!!!
and that other guy thats hearin “maybe if u change this and do that this way…” will be improving his skills at light speed.
even more if its coming from a guy that knows whats hes talking about and had or have the same problems/difficulties you have.
id love a forum like that.

#23

It must be nice to hear that your good so much you actually think your shit doesn’nt stink and you don’t need to hear it anymore. Ya I understand wanting to get a helpful critique but most of the time if someone see’s something in your model that needs fixed they will deffinatly make a comment , but trust me you wont like posting your stuff if there is no fluff. I dont know if any of you go to Sijun at all but some of the members there made an elite forum called Lumental . It was supposed to be a hardcore critique pro level forum to get away from the fanboy fluff of Sijun …the greatest thing since sliced bread if you will…well now the forum gets hardly any posts and all of the members who got in there don’t even post hardly anymore and deffinatly not exclusivly…they went back to posting at sijun…I mean it might be nice to get 1-2 helpful comments but I promise you will be saying to yourself " I guess people don’t like it " after just a few posts…if your really good it is hard for mid level artists to give you really good helpful comments so most of the time it is going to be fluff!! If you want some real help I suggest asking your art director or a co-worker with the same skill level …but as far as im concerned I like to hear the fluff along with the good helpful advice .

#24

There is an obvious gap between peoples stuff. When I post something I want to hear the truth, not a statement cushoined by my obvious lack of talent. I wanna be motivated by the truth. I can’t look at anything I do objectivly, its better than waht I made before but thats subjective and personal. I think if you named it “Harsh Crits” or "brutally Honest Crits "then people would know full well that they are gonna get the truth.

There would always be the problem of people commenting on stuff that might not need to be commented on…there would have to be very specific rules.

1.)No commenting on others comments

2.)No rude or abusive language, or comments directed at the character of the poster i.e. “you are a douchebag”

3.)The person being crtiqued should and must not take things personally

blah blah blah so on and so forth :slight_smile:

I think it would be good. I am seeing a sort of non interactive kinda thing though…just people posting their opinions…no talk or banter between people, just keep it simple.

“I think the back needs a lot of work, its really terrible, and get rid of that checker texture and the lens flare they are pretty lame these days, it screams amateur. Your muscles on the fore arm are wrong, here is a pic of the proper setup.”

then no more until the next update or whatever. NO talking about other peoples comments specifically i.e.

“Jack34 has his head up his ass, the hands are perfect IMO”

just a simple “IMO the hands are perfect…I would change blah blah”

#25

As another idea, why not use the current forums, but prefix the thread title with [HARD TRUTH] or somethign if that’s what you’re looking for. or abbreviate it [HT] or something?

eg.:

  • [HT] My latest character WIP
#26

I think its a pretty good idea. When people onle write: Wow, i love it!!" it just seems liek there trying to increase there post count. A hard crit allows you to improve your modelling so much, providing its not degrading. You find out areas your bad at so you can spend extra time learning more about things.

I have one question though, What wiill happen to the monthly challenges, they are monthly WIP’s? Will they have to be divided up into two seperate sections :

Challenge - [Hard crits]

Challenge - [Soft Crit]

Another suggestion i like was the one where you use the heading of your post to define the “crit level”, this will allow the user to pass it by with out getting there feelings hurt. Really, I think we should all be mature enough to handle hard critisisms, why would people post there WIPs if they didn’t want to know what was wrong, or strange about.

#27

a user/AcFred suggested this in the WIP forum http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5165

much less controversal, and still get the crits/point across, I never seen peeps wanting to get abused as much as some of you do :stuck_out_tongue:
cheers

LD

#28

What about DrAdamDinosaur’s comment? Hmmmm…

Challenge - [Hard crits]

Challenge - [Soft Crit]

#29

I like the Pre-fix idea :slight_smile:

#30

I tend to agree, why not just put

[HARD CRITS] my topic blah blah

easy enough no?

cheers

#31

I sent an email (to Lil’ dragon, I think) suggesting something along these lines.
the title “brutality” came to mind.
I don’t think the general crit forums do this enough. Part of the problem is a lack of clarity over what is needed, and the overall defensivness one feels over one’s own work, or that of an admired artist.
The brutal nature of the forum’s title would also imply a no hard feelings attitude that would be condusive to a more constructive atmosphere.
And if you really can’t take it: don’t post there.
I vote yes.
:bounce:

#32

Different individuals view things differently and express their thoughts differently, of course. Many years back I was in Paris for the first time and was eager to view the real painting of Mona Lisa. I went to the Museum with a friend. When I saw the artwork, these exact words came straight into my mind " Wow, this is magnificent! She is beautiful and mesmerising!" If Leonardo DaVinci is alive and posts this work in CGTalk, will I post the same exact words that first come into my head, you bet. So now my WOW ( =appreciation ) is butt kissing and serve no purpose. My friend on the other hand (who don’t even know who Mona Lisa is ) took one look at the artwork and laughed. His words " So this is what all the fuss is about! She looks wierd like Whoopi Goldberg without her eyebrows! I think she is a little overweight" His comment would be classified as “brutal” and unconstructive. I appreciate artwork as a whole first and see if it appeal to my senses and can provoke any emotion. My friend however will first disect the work and criticise the details. Allow me to rant some more…Thank you. I took part in the Feb Challenge, I received all sorts of comments. One commented I was crazy ( yes actual word used), several “useless” appreciation comments, several insightful and constructive comments and a few comments stating how they liked to see my model their ways. I think it is a healthy mixture of variety of critiques ( I hope this sentence is grammatically correct :wink: ) I remembered someone ( can’t remember who ) was so excited that his thread exceeded 100 posts but more than half of those posts were “damaging WOW” comments. Let’s face the truth, regardless of what level of expertise your work is, it is a great feeling to know your hard work is appreciated. It is an important key motivating factor. The essence of creativity is to be enjoyed by people. If you think you have perfected your artwork technically through constructive comments but no one commented they like it, I wonder what is the aim of creating it - pure self satisfaction? (I do agree some WOW comments are overboard but majority are sincere appreciation) If one should misinterpret some encouraging “WOW” comments on their average work enough to inflate their ego, I feel sorry for their maturity. Likewise for the brutal comments. If Madonna could not survive the brutal crits at the begining of her career of how she sucked as a singer, she would not last till today earning several Grammys. Besides it is only a small minority of people here who give bashing comments, why create a special forum to inflate their egos and cater to their needs. IMHO totally unnecessary. Like Lildragon said, you want hard crits ? Indicate it on the thread title and like ACFred, Bassamintor etc said BE SPECIFIC what area you like to get feedback on and take things in stride when you don’t see the comment eye to eye cos Hardcore Critique Bashers will give it to you regardless of what forum it is or what you indicate in you thread title or first post…end of rant.

#33

My Fault !!

I think that i have done a poor job of representing this idea!

I see great feedback on both sides of this issue, but I feel I may have misrepresented the outlook of the forum! The idea was to create a forum where there would be no doubts about the reasoning for posting in there! That reasoning being your either in there to give 100 % honest feed back witout worrying about offending someone or posting a pic to get the best most honest help you can ! that is the core of it and what i mean by brutal or abusive i was saying this in a joking matter to let people know that all crits would be very honest

I dont think you can honestly give a 100 percent honest crit to someone you dont know i f your not sure that person may or may not get offended. I thought this forum would make both people comenting and people posting feel better knowing they would get crits to help improve and better your eye

I think the {hard crit} soft crit idea is decent but people simply dont read and i think it would become something that realy wasnt useful IMO

To wrap it up Jean Erich and the crew are going to give us whatever we want as long as its good for the comunity ! Jean was even cool enogh to Let me start this forum today however both jean and lil d thought it probaly was a lil to contoversial and may lead to flame wars and or no post at all ! The last thing i want to do is cause controversy unneadlily or screw up the good vibe here! I turned down this oppurtunity for now i think if there is enough demand and support for a forum like this it could possibly be the best forum here but only if it doesnt cause troubles and remained focused with members using good tact maybe in the future this will be a possibilty thanks to jean and lil d also for thinking this through

Trav

#34

Dzogchen:
Hm, funny, that was exactly my point of view. :slight_smile:

So putting the WOW! posts aside, which I admit don’t add much to the discussion but at least usually are very short and easy to scroll past…
…what exactly is so bad about the critting going on in this forum? I must admit I haven’t had time to read a lot of threads here. What is the big problem here? Is the c&c too soft here? Too polite? Do you think a lot of people are holding back their true feelings, actually lying just to keep the status quo?

Well, anyway, I maintain it’s possible to tell a person everything that’s wrong with his or her image, in a no-nonsense way, with one or two polite phrases thrown in, and without even once resorting to words like ‘crap’ and ‘suck’, ‘terrible’, ‘horrible’ or even ‘bad’, and still have it understood, taken seriously, accepted, learned from. Anybody who DOESN’T learn from a good and civil crit, doesn’t deserve to.

No matter how direct and honest you get, it MUST still be possible to observe a minimum of normal common decency on the internet, such as you would with a waiter or bank teller, or any stranger you bumped into on the street (except for the mugger).
That’s not being a whimp… it takes strength to still be polite even when you’re tired, lazy, or upset.

#35

ok ok where all artist’s here and to know that there’s a few people responding to this form. So for whether we should have another form is to be said for but at least it out in the open. I for one I don’t mined my ego stroked sometimes but I would like to see some harsher comments from people I find it can help you improve on what you may or may not see in your work. And my be it’s that we just need to get it out in the open .Which we are doing now .

#36

Hi steven always gotten good feed back from you espicaly on the dog i did so thank you

I knwo that you got some messed up feed back recently sorry for that but like i said abouve i think i gave the wrong idea and i dont realy have a problem with people saying wow or what not doesnt happen on my threads much anyway ! lol

When i started i exagerated the meaning by saying that people are close enough to be able to say that to each other in a goof off way not meaning any harm but I do think that the comunity could benifit from getting strong feed back alot of people simply stop posting becasue they get no feed back and that is as bad as saying it sucks i think

here is a example of what i mean ill use my work to try and show what would happen

#37

ok theres the pic im using! Blackarts as an example cause he can tear a great model down to tel you exactly what it needs even when you think your close to finishing!

I asked him to crit it for me as I know he always gives me honest feed back

Basicly he gave me about 20 things to work on

Like the knees arent very good! Fix them make them look moore like the sketch.

Tthe feet defiently need work!T hey arent very good right now, narrow the ankle and define the shin make it stick out from the muscle so it doesnt look like mush.

The stomach needs work, maybe define the lower abbs more, also try to atach the muscle at the center of the chest so it looks like its stretched correctly

Several other crits that were more on making it look like the sketch etc.

These comments arent exact just using an example of what a typical crit between us is like !

This is what I think is great criting honest to the point and makes you look at your work again! I rarely see this level of criting going on anywhere in this tforum maybe cause people are nervous or not picy enough I just want a area this could be done! I think it would benifeit all, not the topic of bashing each other or sayin g you suck or this looks like sh-- somthing like my example where posters would be expected to give focused hard crits

peace!

#38

Fanboys posting “wow cool” comments make browsing any thread containing anything remotely interesting a real drag, but I doubt you could open a “harsh crits” forum without it degenerating into a flame fest. The same people who insist on flooding the crits section with such gems as "amazing work!!! You are my hero!!! would no doubt poison the Harsh Crits section with nothing but thoughtless insults.

Couldn’t we just ask for/ enforce a morotorium on fanboy comments?

wait a minute, what’s wrong with posting these kind of replies?
say if i don’t want to critisize an image, then i lose the right to give my congrats to the creator? and besides not everybody’s a critic… not all of us are THAT good ya all… might wanna remember that…

#39

Stahlberg:
Glad at least someone shared my point of view. :slight_smile:

Cerreto:
No apology required. We all can see your good intent but it is too idealistic to have a forum full of nothing but polite constructive comments. Blackarts is able to give you fabulous feedback maybe becos you guys are friends and there is mutual care and support for each other.

Not everyone in the forum has that kind of rapport for one another. There is a Chinese saying that goes :" One kind of rice but it feeds thousand kinds of people" . I feel instead of pointing finger and telling people how they should give critics to your work (though they should follow basic guidelines stated by the forum), learn to point the finger at ourself and learn how to evaluate the critics received. The process is very much like gardening :

a) Disregard comments that are destructive and useless are like removing weeds in the garden.

b) Constructive comments are like fertilizers. Add them to your plant to help it grow.

c) Comments that show appreciation - they put a big smile on your face :smiley:

#40

It’s a nice idea, but like dzogchen says, it’s a little too idealistic. In a perfect world there wouldn’t be anything but polite constructive crits. I think that many of those browsing these forums simply lack the will to give such insightful comments that, for example, Blackarts do.

It takes time and concentration to analyze a wip, and it seems like most are just in a hurry to post a comment, be it “wooooow” or “You suck!”. A little more self-moderation would be nice. Take the time to evaluate the wip, try to see what needs doing instead of rushing it… In a perfect world etc :wink:

On the other hand, who doesn’t like to get their ego stroked now and then?

I don’t think there’s any way of having one without the other. Fanboy comments, harsh contructive crits and bs are inextricably linked :slight_smile: