absorption

#15

Thank you Laurent, and you too Paul. I like the way they look — just real enough to be believable, but also idealized — that is, more beautiful than reality. The absorption isn’t really an issue yet since the effect isn’t really noticeable in white wines or the nearly-opaque bottles, but at some point I’m going to need to render some glasses of red wine, and there it’ll be important. I know modo can do absorption convincingly, but I never seem to be able to get artifact-free (or consistent) anti-aliasing out of modo. Whenever I need to get something done, I always turn to EI!

#16

Yes, idealized product rendering is where it is at!!:slight_smile:

Unless you are animating the reds I’m sure you can get pretty close with a combo of EI and Photoshop.

If you are doing glasses of wine then it is time for an upgrade to V7…just the refractive mapping will be worth the added price.

Modo does some stuff very well but in some cases just doesn’t cut it for me either…and AA is also one of them. Especially in comparison to EI. I do like it’s micro-displacement though:-)

There are some aspects of EI which I take for granted until I go into another app and find they are way behind what I have had it terms of quality for years. Mind you it is also the other way around in some cases.

#17

WHy is nothing mentioned in the EI website. It could be a good idea to post this info in the website. just a thought . I give a try this time see if i can get it trhu

#18

Yeah, I know I’m going to upgrade. I’m just being a World Class Procrastinator.

#19

Yeah, the displacements are pretty sophisticated, but insanely memory-hungry. Ravenous, really. In fact, this is a bit of a problem because I have found that what I would normally use bump maps for in EI requires actual displacement to yield acceptable results in modo. The same bump map which looks great in EI — sharply detailed — looks like spongy mush in modo unless I just switch it over to displacement instead. This would be fine except that if you displace even a relatively small object or area, suddenly even low resolution renders gobble up multiple gigabytes of RAM. So then you gotta go in and make a tedious polygonal selection set in order to confine the displacement to just the regions that will benefit, and . . . well, you get the idea, and I’m sure you’ve run into this problem yourself. But this is one of those reasons why I always find myself back in EI when I need to get something done for real: I end up having to do a lot more work in modo just to get simple stuff done that EI does in its sleep. Modo is like a big, fascinating toy, but it’s got a long way to go before it becomes a truly useful tool. For me, anyway. But you know, it’s the current 3D darling. That’ll wear off as people get familiar with all its little quirks and gotchas. I like it, though. For all its faults. Like you said, there’s some stuff it does really well — better than any other app I’ve tried. Those previews!

#20

Wow! I never knew it was so demanding. I did have one project which rendered out at about 3000X2400 pixels without any issues. Couldn’t have done it without the displacement features.

In all honesty, EI’s bumps, both image wise and procedural are far better than any other app I’ve used. Especially procedural bumps…EI are so natural and beautifully detailed.

I’m just working on a project where the client wants it huge - at the last minute - 6000X4800. Just not an issue in EI where-as anywhere else it will either crash or run out of memory.

#21

Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Look in the Render window and watch the Geometry Cache bloat to obscene levels as you render displacements. I don’t mean to criticize it — I’m sure it’s using as much as it needs to — but wow. I’ve only got 2 GB of RAM on my machine, so it can get a little scary sometimes, and on my girlfriend’s 1 GB MacBook you can forget it unless you go in and isolate the displacement to only the essential polygons (which can be a pain).

EI’s bump-maps really are fantastic. Unless you get super close they look almost as good as displacements. Obviously there’s things you can’t do that you need displacements for, but I was just appalled by modo’s bump-mapping. I don’t even bother trying them anymore they look so poor; I just automatically switch the channel to Displacement. And happily the displacement quality is great if you’ve got the RAM.

#22

Holy cow, I just noticed you said 6000x4800! I’ve never rendered anything even approaching that size.

#23

Hi Paul, how far can you go size wise with Rhino/Brazil combi. With EI, I’m not surprised you dont have memory issues with largish images as you mostly are using procedurals.

Martin K

#24

I’m not sure with Brazil4Rhino - a few versions back the largest I could go on one project was roughly 3000 X 2400 but there have been some changes since.

My technique with different 3D apps doesn’t really change much so I’m not sure of the point you are making:-) Yes, EI handles procedurals very well.

#25

No point other than using procedurals takes less memory that using a lot of bitmap textures.
I’ve occasionally had to render very large images and one soon seems to run out of memory when you’re getting up to the 4500 pixel wide, what with the size of bitmap required and the necessary denser mesh. I was curious about the Rhino/Brazil combination and how far it would go size wise.

Martin K

#26

I’ll let you know on the Brazil/Rhino size once the beta is over…which should be quite soon.

The Rhino crowd is a bit of a different crowd…for the most part, a one button click is what many want a render engine to be. They want very, very simple but with great output:-)

Seems Brazil has gotten it’s share of “it’s too complex” from many users though I can get a great looking image out of it with about 5-6 clicks. It’s pretty simple but might be a little more than most want. I hope it does well as it deserves to - great render and makes using Rhino a complete joy.

I’m completely sold on having a half-decent rendering engine in one’s modeler.

#27

Yes, I have the beta, but haven’t tried it yet- it’s the time thing. It looks complex enough to have to spend a fair bit of time on.
I think with all these things, the art is getting the potential user going quickly enough- with something…There needs to be some sort of quick start that you can build on.
Rhino is a nice modelling environent, but not too keen on the meshing- it can bring the Modo ‘model’ window to a stand still. Modo is best with its own inhouse modelling/mesh at rendertime system.
Did a bit of EI messing about earlier- it really needs a better previewing facility. I notice mostly the mesh shading quality and the nicely shaped highlights. Also the way objects are affected by the lights in a way you don’t get with c4d.

Martin K

#28

You’re missing out if you haven’t tried it!!:slight_smile:

Here’s what you do…create your object and make a ground-plane, open the Brazil Options interface, scroll down to the Luma server and click the Sky Light check box in the Direct Illumination section.

Hit render…perfectly exposed white plaster GI scene. A little grainy but that goes away when the AA and sampling is brought up to output quality. Click on the Button which says P3 in the Sampling parameters under Image Sampling in the options tab to get a nice preset fr output quality.

That’s all you have to do to get a general idea of your objects…setting up materials and a great GI Environment is almost just as easy.

I’m using the Modo to Rhino and Rhino to Modo pluggins and they work great for in and out…though if too large Modo can slow down.

Objects created in EIM and exported as fact with a good sound mesh shade and render incredibly well in EI. I believe the smooth shading is assigned per normal (I’m not certain) so you don’t get the weird stuff C4D can throw at you.

Rhino behaves exactly the same way with Brazil…no smooth shading errors…everything is perfect within the app. Mesh created elsewhere and brought in (Modo, C4D) is a different story and one has to deal with smooth shading angles, etc. I stay away from that as it’s such a pain at times…but the only thing I really bring in are SubDs so the shading is quite fast to set up.

Give Brazil a run…the beta is expiring soon and you may not get a chance.

#29

Wow! I just tried that- looks good. Must do some more…

Martin K

#30

Here’s the next thing to do:-)

In the Environment tab load in the GI environment. And then assign one of the HDRI’s which came with Modo in the image slot.

Assign a chrome material to your object and set the color of the chrome to less than white…a nice warm or cool grey.

Hit render:-)

#31

Hi Paul how are those NX shaders working for you so far. I have seen tonight some of your art and David as well. They look incredible. There is no need for any texturing just with that NX shading system you got enough.

#32

David’s shaders are great - NX included. He really did a lot to increase the value and useability of EI.

Yes, maps aren’t as needed with all of the great procedurals available but they still have their place - EI’s filtering of maps is first rate.

#33

Thanks Paul, I’ll try that when I get time- off to photograph flowers…

Martin K

#34

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