A rig for discussion

#9

Thanks for the feed back!

Wegg: The “Auto Aim” issue that you mentioned seems to be an oddity of messiah. Sometimes when loading a scene the auto centering is on, even though the icons say otherwise. Just tap the ‘a’ button twice and all should be normal.
Did you copy the script to your local script folder ? The MMB functionality relies on the ‘ResetObject.msa’ script.

I am aware that the editing of the motion curves might be a problem. Currently you need four curves (X,Y,Z and bank) of the control/target to define a motion. This is like the “X,Y,Z, roll” mode in Animation:Master which has the advantage that it avoids gimbal lock, but leaves you with function curves that still can interpreted (other than the curves of quaternions, which are a total mess). I agree that the blue dot should stay in relatively the same position to the root of the bone, I will fix that next. Of course the computed motion can also be baked out directly to the bone.

stooch: Interesting idea that you have. I will have a closer look at this.

Ulven: Thanks a lot! Actually your rigging thread inspired me to try and post myself this rig. I haven’t yet figured out the best way to integrate IK/FK switching, but it is on my list.

#10

Holy moley!!! I had forgotten how much I loved that in AM and for you to have done this in messiah, Woooo!! What a great week for messiah users between the rigs, Wegg’s DOF topic, etc.

#11

I did copy it to the local folder. I don’t quite get whats going on. I do think its important that you just enable it after you let go of it anyway. . . but. . . I’d like to see it work with the mmb before that too.

#12

Hehe, actually I’ve been using your simplerigger in lightwave for quite some time, In terms of gettting a decent lw rig in seconds there’s nothing I like more. Back to your messiah rig: I think it’s definately still possible to do IK/FK blending but you’ll have to test it a bit futher than I did with my quick tests. Keyfader is the way I think, but WHEN it should happen in relation to the other expressionos is what you’ll have too find out.

#13

Hi Suricate,
great stuff!
I agree with Wegg - that auto-aim is blowing my mind. Couldn’t turn it off - the msa was installed, the double-tapped aa… no go.
Feels like the machine is taking over. Moved to camera view and it was more pleasant on me.

Interesting approach - I’ve never worked with AM. Things I think I’d miss this way are muiltiple selection editing (I like working on spine / tail etc. that way.) and the overview of keys.
Of course - this kind of editing sure is intiuitive…

I could well warm up to it. And more - shift-clicking switches to layered spline control, bending the curve along the arm… (okay, let me dream)

#14

jesus christ lol it took me 2 second to turn off the auto tracking, tap the auto tracking armature on and off on the top right. that did it for me.

#15

Ah… there! Yeah that does it. Cool, thanks.
(I was clicking the ‘a’ button like a depraved lab rat.)

#16

ha ha! So was I! Sometimes I foget programs have interface buttons. . .

#17

I am so glad I wasn’t the only person doing that!

#18

How’s it going on the IK/FK blend? Or the rest of whatever’s on your list? I’ve been busy with some illustrations but now I’ve shown your rig to my good friend and colleague and we both think you’re really on to something here. I think we’re leaning towards trying to make an entire rig like this now.

#19

I finally got somewhere with the IK/FK blending. It’s a little dirty but it’s a start. Have a look.

http://www.usefulslug.com/messiahrig/ButchRig0004.mpj

#20

Looks like it works! Very cool.

#21

I was able to get a wierd pop - something odd. I’ll send you the scene.

#22

Thanks for adding the IK/FK blending, nice one!

In the meantime, I’ve been looking into the SDK and luckily I found some code snippets among the examples there that might let me implement the ideas that have been discussed here. However, due to some other commitments it will take a few more days until I can present the next version of the rig.

#23

The IK/FK blending is done in a slightly dirty way so I’d expect one might get some problems and possible pops, especially around 50% blend where it’s quite weak. The best thing is to have the FK and IK arm in more or less the same position and then just use the blend to switch over a couple of frames until I can sort out a smoother way of doing this.

#24

OK, I managed to do some coding and here is the next version of the rig. You have to put the plug-in into your plug-ins folder to make the rig work.

The usage is rather simple: Click/drag left on one of the armatures to control heading/pitch of a bone. The bank channel can be controlled via the edit sphere control. Right-clicking resets the bone to its setup position.

The main difference is that now there are no more control expressions, but instead the armature actions control the bones on-the-fly. So the bones are just keyframed regularly, i.e. you can edit their motion curves traditionally in the graph editor.

Please feel free to tear the rig apart.:slight_smile:

#25

This rig isn’t as smooth as the first one. In how it feels while your moving the bones around. Its like. . . when you use someone else’s computer and they have their mouse speed set WAY high and it feels all off. If that makes any sense at all. But the fact that the blue dot pops back to the bone. . . and that your manipulating the bones themelves instead of a target is very very cool. Is this one more prone to gymbol? Is it possible to do IK/FK? Can I have a pony? Is it possible to put the bank back on the right click? That was more natural for me. And maybe middle click for bone reset. This really is a very very cool rig. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

#26

Hmmm, very interesting indeed. I agree with Wegg that it’s a little less smooth now. Looks like it suffers from more of the rotational problems of messiah than the first one. Excellent work though :thumbsup: I’ll have to tear it apart some more. I’m trying to do a Marek style squash & stretchyness with your style of FK controls, I’ll report how I fare later.
Keep up the good work!

#27

Next version of the rig is up. The plugins are updated, so you have to replace the old plug in file.
By popular demand :slight_smile: now right-dragging changes the bank rotation, while middle-clicking resets the bone. Left-dragging affects heading/pitch (only heading with the forearm bones).
The plugins sort of work now, but will need some further polishing. I will also try to make the rig ‘smoother’ again, maybe including an IK/FK switch.
Since in this version of the rig you manipulate the bones directly, this rig is prone to gimbal lock as any other normal rig, but of course you still have the option to switch the control bones to quaternion interpolation.

#28

After going back and forth between the first one and this latest one. . . I can only BARELY tell the difference in the “smooth” quality of how the bones move. Might even just be in my head.

In A:M even though you have constraints on the bones that lock it to a certain range of motion. . . the way you interract with the bones is the same. So on your bicep now you have it so a left-click drag makes the armature work like pitch on the gizmo. It kind of breaks the feeling a little bit. A true A:M like experience would be having it locked like you have it but still target as best it can the position of the blue dot.