A:M Assessment Please

#46

Originally posted by Wegg
[B]Dude that is sick. . . and wrong.

Cash Money Cockfighter. . . [/B]

Believe me, Wegg, I’ve heard that before. To each his own…

What’s interesting to me is when I show people this concept they either love it or hate it. There’s absolutely no iffy about it. Cockfighting is only legal in 3 states, but outside of America, it’s big business.

But what’s really odd are the developers who are working on ultra-violent, human-to-human/war, death-match games that are taken aback by the idea of a game like this.

#47

There’s a good deal of truth in what you say. However, it’s the sense that we are forcing animals to unnaturally fight to the death for our own amusement, whereas humans fighting each other, there’s an element of them doing it through their own volition, but of course not always. Killing fantasy creatures, well that’s probably just therapeutic.

#48

Originally posted by pequod
However, it’s the sense that we are forcing animals to unnaturally fight to the death for our own amusement…Killing fantasy creatures, well that’s probably just therapeutic.

I understand what you’re talking about. And when I struggle to finish this demo, perhaps I’ll be changing the perspective of the player to the gamecock himself and just eliminate any human presence. If you mean instigating a fight between two animals, then I agree with you, but gamecocks don’t unnaturally fight to the death. Observe them in the wild, and when boundaries are crossed, then it’s on! That’s their nature. I did quite a bit of research on gamecocks before I even started this demo. I’ve watched a few documentaries, and the infamous World Slasher Cup(superbowl of cockfighting). Gamecocks have one of the most volatile hierarchies(aka. Pecking Order) within the animal kingdom. They are EXTREMELY territorial. I have docs from breeders that say once a pecking order is established and if there is an introduction of an outsider male, or even the subtraction of a male, that turns the whole order upside down and it’s often times a bloodbath thereafter. Gamecocks are bred for fighting, they have been for thousands of years, way before the concept of PETA ever was introduced.

#49

@ ewdean

if you are going for a “typical-bloodbath-game”<-parody
why not exaggerate the whole thing?
if you’d use ceo’s or other boss-type chars instead of cocks
most would have loved that one (:

the point is, you need a base to work on
i fear there are not that many cg-lers around
that experience cock-fighting the way you do

it’s not popular at all around here (germ-any)
& i like it that way (;

@ wegg

i’m sure such a video-tut would be real fun

#50

Originally posted by Ran13

Art’s mod to Martan’s plug-in addresses this issue by offereing you the option to have the bones written to their proper orientation and postion in world space, but it has an adverse effect on the animations. It ignores the “black bone” (in A:M, the true root bone), and also ignores any transforms to the root bone of the skel hierarchy (in most cases…the pelvis bone). But the feature was added to allow those that need bone-level collision detection to have the bones in their proper locations, but they have to deal with keeping the actors feet on the ground in code.

Hmm… interesting… So I would guess then the simple way around this problem is to create and additional bone or two (as I’m not 100% sure how many bones are getting ignored. Just the model’s base “black” bone, or the first bone in a heirarchy as well?) and then treat the appropriate new bone as the models base bone by assigning all other rig bones as children to it, and assigning all base bone CP’s to it as well. Correct? If so it seems like a minor inconvenience, but one that probably should be addressed.

#51

It basically ignores the black bone, and makes the highest bone in the hierarchy below the black bone the root bone. The end result is that, when the in the original A:M animation, the pelvis is lowered and the feet stay planted on the ground, in the converted action, the pelvis stays put and the feet raise up off the ground. :surprised

I thought of your solution myself, but I seem to remember Art saying that if the root bone had no keyframes, it would be ignored as well. :shrug: I suggested just keying the root bone on the first and last frames of the action. but Art said that, because of the keyframe optimizations inherent in the G3D ACT format, redundant and miniscule keys are optimized out, so the end result (unless you actually transfor the root bone significantly between the first and last keys) would be that this new root bone would be ignored as well.

If you can get in touch with Art, maybe he can explain better than I.:shrug:

ewdean:
video cockfighting?!?!?
sheesh…what’s next…virtual dog fighting?? with bionic dogs perhaps? :wink:

#52

Originally posted by ewdean
Observe them in the wild, and when boundaries are crossed, then it’s on!

Of course, in the wild, no one has attached razor blades to their feet. It’s a sick sport, no matter how you rationalize it.

#53

Originally posted by Roger Eberhart
Of course, in the wild, no one has attached razor blades to their feet. It’s a sick sport, no matter how you rationalize it.

I had a friend who on a first date, the guy took her to a cockfight. How braindead do you have to be to think…
hmmm first date…
movie…no
dinner…nah
cockfight… oh yeah!

Needless to say, there was no second date. That’s a lesson for all you single guys out there. :thumbsup:

#54

Off topic here but:

A matter of cultural difference?

It’s a sick sport, no matter how you rationalize it.

Been around for hundreds of years, and of course it doesn’t bother me.

Yes I’m probably insensitive and heartless and would gut another human being for the sheer sadistic pleasure it affords me.

But chickens goaded into killing each other doesn’t bother me in the least.

Hey to each their own opinions. We agree to disagree? :thumbsup:

#55

Originally posted by Primus
[B]Off topic here but:

A matter of cultural difference?

Been around for hundreds of years, and of course it doesn’t bother me.

Yes I’m probably insensitive and heartless and would gut another human being for the sheer sadistic pleasure it affords me.

But chickens goaded into killing each other doesn’t bother me in the least.

Hey to each their own opinions. We agree to disagree? :thumbsup: [/B]

I’m sure it’s a sport Gacy or Bundy would love.

#56

Originally posted by Primus
[B]Off topic here but:

A matter of cultural difference?

Been around for hundreds of years, and of course it doesn’t bother me.

Yes I’m probably insensitive and heartless and would gut another human being for the sheer sadistic pleasure it affords me.

But chickens goaded into killing each other doesn’t bother me in the least.

Hey to each their own opinions. We agree to disagree? :thumbsup: [/B]

No, it is not simply a matter of opinion. Cruelty to animals is not acceptable in civilized society, regardless of “culture”. When I see people being cruel to animals, I do everything in my power to put a stop to it. Most people I have encountered feel the same way. If someone’s “culture” encourages cruelty to animals, that culture needs to be modified.

For example, here in Canada, Natives are allowed to hunt whales because it is part of their “ancient culture”. Apparently, this “ancient culture” includes speed boats and high-powered rifles:rolleyes:. Everyone sits back and shakes their heads while these beautiful, intelligent mammals are slaughtered, because speaking out against culture is so “politically correct”. Sometimes this world just sickens me… :sad:

#57

I like beef enough to a kill a cow and butcher it myself.

Your whale analogy doesn’t ring like cruelty to me- they didn’t torture the animal, and a high powered rifle shot to a whale is a lot more humane than a harpoon and seal-skin floats to wear out the poor beast only to be killed after it is exhausted and, presumably, despairing enough to “give up.”

I’d rather be shot than forked and have to run around until I collapse.

I’m against the killing of whales for reasons other than because killing animals is per se cruel- I don’t think so. I’m gonna eat, and I’ll kill my meal if I have to.

Wow, what an OT thread… What’ll pop up next?

#58

Originally posted by Dearmad
[B]I like beef enough to a kill a cow and butcher it myself.

Your whale analogy doesn’t ring like cruelty to me- they didn’t torture the animal, and a high powered rifle shot to a whale is a lot more humane than a harpoon and seal-skin floats to wear out the poor beast only to be killed after it is exhausted and, presumably, despairing enough to “give up.”

I’d rather be shot than forked and have to run around until I collapse.

I’m against the killing of whales for reasons other than because killing animals is per se cruel- I don’t think so. I’m gonna eat, and I’ll kill my meal if I have to.

Wow, what an OT thread… What’ll pop up next? [/B]

Killing animals isn’t necessarily cruel. For example, you might kill a cow for food, but (hopefully) you wouldn’t do it out of cruelty. As for my whale analogy, here’s what pissed me off about the whole thing:

They claimed they were hunting whales to preserve their Native traditions, yet they were using speed boats and high-powered rifles. Obviously, “tradition” and “culture” weren’t their primary motivation. They were simply showing that they can get away with anything from behind a cultural shield. Whales are not cows. They are incredibly intelligent, beautiful, gentle animals. Nearly as intelligent as humans, and by far much more gentle. There is no good reason to kill whales in this day and age. Also, if you saw the hunt on the news (as I did), I think/hope you would agree that there was cruelty involved.

#59

No, it is not simply a matter of opinion. Cruelty to animals is not acceptable in civilized society, regardless of “culture”.

It’s your opinion to view it as not an opinion. Hey China has been civilized for much longer than western culture. We consume dogs, cats, horses, whales, sharks, sea turtles, and hey even beaten game cocks.

Your values are definitely different from mine. I’ve no problem with your belief system, please feel free to abhor mine. Everyone is entitled to free thinking.

I think that Western forms of philoshophy is very repressive, and end results are people like Gacy or Bundy? Or children shooting each other with shotguns. I can see how cock fighting can cause millions of Asians to go on a mass murdering spree. :shrug:

Empathy for cruelty to chickens is commendable how ever.

The killing of endangered species I’m definitely against. Which is part of my belief system.

#60

civilized men? :applause:
we are much more cavemen with glasses & ties

always attacking what’s different :beer: how grown-up

one is used to more cruelty & the other can’t stand the half of it
the first one says “it’s not that cruel, really - that’s just the way life is”
& the second is blown away by the pain caused alone by watching the whole sitcom

please go on with this crucification-justification-jingle
since there can be of course only one side wrong, right? :wavey:

simplifications suck :beer:

still like the ceo-fighting-idea or how about presidents, chancellors & stuff?
& still don’t get if it’s going to be a cock-fight-simulation or a bloodbath-game-parody
a simulation could be way more detailed in grafx (at least)
so you feel the feathers being ripped out & flesh torn apart
yeah, you gotta shiver & feel the adrenalin pumpin
well if that doesn’t sound cruel, what does? (:
& a parody could be way more exaggerated (imho)

#61

we are much more cavemen with glasses & ties

I agree noOne, there is no simplification, there is no black and white, there are so many shades of colors let alone gray.

Humans are animals too, every agressive act by a human against another is at it’s very root motivated by behaviour programmed in through evolution.

Wars to gain territory, religous wars to spread belief, muggers who kill for food, money etc. (rape is male dominant behaviour). Maybe Freud wasn’t such a weenie after all and like every other animal, sex and procreation is the root and cause of our problems. Attempts to modify that basic behaviour causes profound unhappiness.

We are the ultimate animals? Yet the denial of basic instinct causes so much problems in the human psyche that deviant behaviour emerges?

Yet we can become so much more than what our reptillian brains tell us… Can we? The individual is so important in our concept of humanity…

“On matters most cosmic I dwell not, but find in living today all I need to be happy.”

Very off topic and my last word on the subject :wink:

#62

WOW! This is the best “Straying into OT” that I have ever seen!

From someone asking about an honest assesment of A:M’s abilities, into a discussion on the cultural differences and acceptance/abhoration of cockfighting.

I love the net!

#63

If the roosters were throwing naked punters into the ring to watch them kill each other. . . I’d buy it.

#64

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mhovland
From someone asking about an honest assesment of A:M’s abilities, into a discussion on the cultural differences and acceptance/abhoration of cockfighting.
QUOTE]

LOL!

Here’s one of the birds I modelled. The animations are pretty crude 'cause I’m still looking for a better game engine and didn’t want to go to far with Reality Factory.

http://members.cox.net/edean6/gamecock.avi

#65

Originally posted by Primus
Your values are definitely different from mine. I’ve no problem with your belief system, please feel free to abhor mine. Everyone is entitled to free thinking.

Right, but you aren’t necessarily entitled to free action. Forcing animals to fight for your own entertainment is cruel, which is why I don’t respect that aspect of a person’s belief system. The men who flew a plane into the WTC were just following their “beliefs”.