A few questions

#1

Hey guys,
I got a few questions about messiah, i’m quite new to this whole programe and setup in general so i wanted to ask a few basic questions.

  1. I’m trying to setup a human charecter and i am at the fingers setup right now, the question is how do i keep the fingers from getting a wired deform when i bend the bones at the first and second join on the finger?
    I figured i could maybe do this with the flex tool but didnt maneage to get it to work, it didnt effect the mesh at all, or in another case after playing for about an hour with the settings it simply started bending the whole charecter:shrug:
    If any one could explain to me how it is done, or maybe i’m looking at it the worng way, and flex is not the answer to this?

  2. Is it possible to build a rig in messiah and use it on other charecters? if so is the only thing i need to do is just copy the “bone deform” effect to the new charecter?

  3. Can bones from one model can be used to deform another? ie. if i have a man and he has a helmet on his head but they were not made on the same layer in LW so they are basicly 2 meshs in messiah, can i make sure the helmet follows the head some how?

thanks in advance guys.
-Vartan

#2

I guess I’ll have a stab at this.

  1. I’m trying to setup a human charecter and i am at the fingers setup right now, the question is how do i keep the fingers from getting a wired deform when i bend the bones at the first and second join on the finger?
    I figured i could maybe do this with the flex tool but didnt maneage to get it to work, it didnt effect the mesh at all, or in another case after playing for about an hour with the settings it simply started bending the whole charecter
    If any one could explain to me how it is done, or maybe i’m looking at it the worng way, and flex is not the answer to this?

I think I know what you mean. I assume you are new to rigging so things like falloff and Limited Range may seem elusive. I personally use Hold Bones when I rig fingers. I generally model my hands with the fingers spread to reduce unwanted influence. You could use weight maps to restrict influence but I don’t find it practical. I hate mixing weights and bones. I only use those for texturing, displacing and fx.

  1. Is it possible to build a rig in messiah and use it on other charecters? if so is the only thing i need to do is just copy the “bone deform” effect to the new charecter?

Yes it is possible to rig for other characters. For human characters, I set up a single rig for each gender, then I model all of my new characters to the same scale resizing them in Messiah. Just the click of a button a few tweaks and I’m rigged and done. You don’t even have to recopy Bone Deform, just go into setup, select your model and add it to the effect.

  1. Can bones from one model can be used to deform another? ie. if i have a man and he has a helmet on his head but they were not made on the same layer in LW so they are basicly 2 meshs in messiah, can i make sure the helmet follows the head some how?

Yup, answered in question 2.

#3

That is a hard question, helps to include your project file posted in the thread so we can actually look at it. but im guessing that if something rotates weird, you can blame gimbal lock. Create your bones in such a way that avoids rotating in PITCH less then -90 or more then 90 degrees. you should always take care in messiah to avoid this situation with ANY rig.

You need to copy everything included for the bone effect. I prefer to save the scene as a new filename, import the new meshes, delete the old and reposition the bones. I take care to create my rigs as easy to resize and move around as possible.

Yes, you could either include both meshes in the same deform or you could simply parent an item to any bone you want (if you never expected that mesh to be “bent” by the bones). Pay attention to the RIGHT list when in effects/bone deform tab. The meshes in that list are being deformed by the bones. you can add to and edit that list

#4

Hi Vartan,

To rig a hand whit good deformations, I only use the main bones to control the fingers, and support bones parented to each of this, to get correct deformations.

this is an example

TIMNHE

#5

Thank you very much for your answers guys they are very helpfull.

I guess i should have explained my self batter, when i said that it deforms odd what i ment was that when the fingers bend into a fist then the joint area gets flatned.
and i saw on the messiah page they used the flex tool to improve that a little so i guess that it could be done with the fingers as well :shrug:

#6

For fingers, you can use a Follow or Follow Frame expression, and just animate/rotate the first joint and the others will bend.

Best,
Rick

#7

Then you could link that all into a slider. And bend the fingers using the slider.

#8

Thanks…forgot to mention that as the other step to ease control.

Best,
Rick

#9

Another factor is how you place the bones. I guess you’re in tight on the hand. Place the bones neare the “top” (outside) of the hand, since the fleshier side is inside. If you still need more, you could think about a set of nulls placed along the lower side of the fingers, and parented to each joint/bone above. Then use muscle bones to connect, so when the fingers bend there is more elasticity.

Also, if tere are influence problems, remember that you could use puppetmaster to separate them.

Best,
Rick

#10

Thank you very much guys, i’m going to give it all a go and see if i manage to figure it out.

again thanks for the great help! :thumbsup:

#11

Sounds like you’re describing the “bent hose” effect which is fairly common. As other’s have said, place the bones closer to the upper (knuckle) side of the joints/fingers. It may also be worth investing $25 USD in Joe Cosman’s Riggin 1 CD … well worth the price. Could save you many hours. :slight_smile:

#12

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